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The Once and Future King #2-3
The Witch in the Wood/The Ill-Made Knight
King Arthur is on the throne, and trying to establish the rules of chivalry and noble questing that will come to mark his reign. Meanwhile, in one of the great love stories in English literature, Lancelot and Guinevere fall for each other at the glorious court of Camelot. But in the north, a family that has been wronged are vowing revenge. And the king is closer to them than he knows. With humour, compassion and vivid description, T. H. White continues his retelling of the Arthurian legend in this second part of The Once and Future King.
12 pages, Audio CD
First published January 1, 1940
3 people are currently reading
73 people want to read
About the author
T.H. White
104 books1,531 followersBorn in Bombay to English parents, Terence Hanbury White was educated at Cambridge and taught for some time at Stowe before deciding to write full-time. White moved to Ireland in 1939 as a conscientious objector to WWII, and lived out his years there. White is best known for his sequence of Arthurian novels, The Once and Future King, first published together in 1958.
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Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews
June 1, 2020
The legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table seem to usually be romanticized, however, T.H White's trilogy is steeped in realism. Sometimes, there was a bit too much reality and I found the cruelty in "The Witch in the Wood" hard to listen to and necessarily skipped forward a bit. However, I thoroughly enjoyed, "The Ill-Made Knight" for it's realistic view of the life and relationships of the Knights, especially between Lancelot and Guenever, also known as Jenny.
The following passage which describes Lancelot transitioning back into polite society after being away at war resonated:
"All my gains are slipping away, with the people round me. A lot of the things which you and Jenny say, even, seem to me to be needless: strange noises: empty. You know what I mean, ‘How are you?’ — ‘Do sit down.’— ‘What nice weather we are having!’ What does it matter? People talk far too much. Where I have been, and where Galahad is, it is a waste of time to have ‘manners.’ Manners are only needed between people, to keep their empty affairs in working order. Manners makyth man, you know, not God."
I loved passages like these where Lancelot pondered his feelings aloud, and worked through the thoughts that troubled him. White gives his characters a depth and breadth that I have not discovered elsewhere. I felt deep sorrow to leave them behind when the tale was ended.
Another quote that gave me pause was, "Merlin had not intended him (Arthur) for private joy." It made me think of those in leadership who put the needs of others before their own needs. I thought especially of Queen Elizabeth II who pledged her life for her country at age 21 and became the longest-reigning British monarch on Sept 9, 2015.
Neville Jason's narration was wonderful. His expressive voice is a joy to listen to.
The following passage which describes Lancelot transitioning back into polite society after being away at war resonated:
"All my gains are slipping away, with the people round me. A lot of the things which you and Jenny say, even, seem to me to be needless: strange noises: empty. You know what I mean, ‘How are you?’ — ‘Do sit down.’— ‘What nice weather we are having!’ What does it matter? People talk far too much. Where I have been, and where Galahad is, it is a waste of time to have ‘manners.’ Manners are only needed between people, to keep their empty affairs in working order. Manners makyth man, you know, not God."
I loved passages like these where Lancelot pondered his feelings aloud, and worked through the thoughts that troubled him. White gives his characters a depth and breadth that I have not discovered elsewhere. I felt deep sorrow to leave them behind when the tale was ended.
Another quote that gave me pause was, "Merlin had not intended him (Arthur) for private joy." It made me think of those in leadership who put the needs of others before their own needs. I thought especially of Queen Elizabeth II who pledged her life for her country at age 21 and became the longest-reigning British monarch on Sept 9, 2015.
Neville Jason's narration was wonderful. His expressive voice is a joy to listen to.
January 22, 2019
Ugh. I love this book to bits. I love it in an omnibus, I love it in individual volumes. I love it on paper, I love it on audio. I've read it backwards and forwards, and every time I do I find a new element to love.
The Sword in the Stone is most well known and perhaps best beloved, for it dispenses its truths with humor and sweetness. It is whimsical and innocent. The next two, Queen of Air and Darkness/Witch in the Wood and The Ill-Made Knight are not. They are messy and cruel, bold foils of Arthur's kindly childhood. They are brutal. They are filled with wrongs, secrets, lies, and betrayals told with the same gut-wrenching insight as we got when the truths were just sweet.
These books could be melodramatic. They could be filled with the gossipy, sensational parts of the tragedy of Arthur. And it's hard to avoid all of it, of course. But instead of focusing on the brutishness of the Orkney clan and the cuckolding of Arthur, instead we see how the hurts of childhood come home to roost in the hearts of men and women. It is my unfounded contention that White saw himself in Lancelot, in a way, and I am more and more struck with the story of his life.
In short, I love these books.
CONTENT WARNING:
The Sword in the Stone is most well known and perhaps best beloved, for it dispenses its truths with humor and sweetness. It is whimsical and innocent. The next two, Queen of Air and Darkness/Witch in the Wood and The Ill-Made Knight are not. They are messy and cruel, bold foils of Arthur's kindly childhood. They are brutal. They are filled with wrongs, secrets, lies, and betrayals told with the same gut-wrenching insight as we got when the truths were just sweet.
These books could be melodramatic. They could be filled with the gossipy, sensational parts of the tragedy of Arthur. And it's hard to avoid all of it, of course. But instead of focusing on the brutishness of the Orkney clan and the cuckolding of Arthur, instead we see how the hurts of childhood come home to roost in the hearts of men and women. It is my unfounded contention that White saw himself in Lancelot, in a way, and I am more and more struck with the story of his life.
In short, I love these books.
CONTENT WARNING:
Read
July 28, 20163.5-4 stars.
Read as one of the Best Novel nominees for the 1941 Retro Hugo Awards.
Read as one of the Best Novel nominees for the 1941 Retro Hugo Awards.
January 11, 2025
I'm surprised to find, rereading this series not that long after I originally read it, how much more I am enjoying it the second time around. Certainly, there is plenty of dated language, especially some racial slurs we wouldn't use so casually these days, and I think the women might be a little more fully realised in an equivalent novel today. But having read more of the Arthurian tradition - although, not Mallory - I think I got more of the references, more of what T.H. White was doing with that tradition. Perhaps that enhanced my enjoyment, or perhaps it was the audiobook narration.
I still think that The Witch in the Wood is my least-favourite of the series. It doesn't have enough of a focus, and I don't like this French propaganda about Gawain being anything other than a solid knight, but I do understand why it's there - and how it bridges events from the children's story The Sword in the Stone to the more adult rest of the series. I'm still curious about the version from before it was gutted for The Once and Future King (but not so curious that I bought the damp-damaged version I found in the antiques mall for $20).
The Ill-Made Knight, though, is excellent. I love this version of Lancelot - his interiority, his love for Guenever, Arthur, and God. I think White expends a lot of effort ensuring that he is understandable to the reader, if they allow it, while the people in the novel constantly misunderstand him. I wish a similar energy had been expended on the character of Guenever. I think this volume would reward rereading on its own account, maybe after I have read Mallory, to really get a feel for Lancelot and what White does with him specifically.
I still think that The Witch in the Wood is my least-favourite of the series. It doesn't have enough of a focus, and I don't like this French propaganda about Gawain being anything other than a solid knight, but I do understand why it's there - and how it bridges events from the children's story The Sword in the Stone to the more adult rest of the series. I'm still curious about the version from before it was gutted for The Once and Future King (but not so curious that I bought the damp-damaged version I found in the antiques mall for $20).
The Ill-Made Knight, though, is excellent. I love this version of Lancelot - his interiority, his love for Guenever, Arthur, and God. I think White expends a lot of effort ensuring that he is understandable to the reader, if they allow it, while the people in the novel constantly misunderstand him. I wish a similar energy had been expended on the character of Guenever. I think this volume would reward rereading on its own account, maybe after I have read Mallory, to really get a feel for Lancelot and what White does with him specifically.
September 29, 2024
This book actually contains books 2 and 3 in the "The Once and Future King" series.
Book 2: The Witch in the Wood follows King Arthur as he works to create a peaceful kingdom. Meanwhile his half sister and witch, Queen Morgause, has plans of her own.
This book still contains some of the whimsy that was prevalent in Sword in the Stone, however there are much more grown up themes. While it was humorous and entertaining at times, it didn't quite hold my attention like its predecessor.
Book 3: The Ill-Made Knight follows Sir Lancelot, his adventures, and his off and on again affair with the King's wife, Guinevere.
This book focused on adventures and love. Lancelot is an interesting character, moved by righteousness and doing the right thing. However, as he is only human, he often makes mistakes and his will is testing. I found this book to be compelling and engaging.
Book 2: The Witch in the Wood follows King Arthur as he works to create a peaceful kingdom. Meanwhile his half sister and witch, Queen Morgause, has plans of her own.
This book still contains some of the whimsy that was prevalent in Sword in the Stone, however there are much more grown up themes. While it was humorous and entertaining at times, it didn't quite hold my attention like its predecessor.
Book 3: The Ill-Made Knight follows Sir Lancelot, his adventures, and his off and on again affair with the King's wife, Guinevere.
This book focused on adventures and love. Lancelot is an interesting character, moved by righteousness and doing the right thing. However, as he is only human, he often makes mistakes and his will is testing. I found this book to be compelling and engaging.
June 1, 2020
I only listened to the first book (The Witch in the Wood), which was dark enough, and gave up partway through the second. The whole Guinevere/Lancelot slo-mo trainwreck was just too depressing.
October 9, 2023
Boiling of cats and women. Some heads get chopped off. Virgins are needed for unicorns and to be a great knight.
April 7, 2017
I was happy to find this on audio because I'm working on reading all of the parts of Once and Future King for book club. I wasn't crazy about this though. I've never read any King Arthur stories before tackling The Sword and the Stone and this one, so I really didn't know what to expect. One thing I did not expect was for it to be a big soap opera. It held my attention more near the last couple of hours. But I really am not a fan so far.
May 30, 2008
Finally, at long last, an audio version of The Once & Future King. Actually, this edition encompasses only the second and third books in the volume known to readers as The Once & Future King. The narrator is fantastic. T.H. Whites excellent dialogue characterizations literally come to life and dance around in your head.
February 22, 2023
I really wasn't expecting to like this so much? I have some issues with some of the classic story beats of Arthurian lore, and TH White has some weird commentary on "modern love" of the 1950s (apparently White thought love was too fleeting and people too prone to divorce, even in the 1950s, which I found surprising) and racist references to civilization vs savages and such. Pretty standard white dude writing in the 1950s about grand scale events. But overall, I actually enjoyed a lot of his anachronistic references. It felt like a friend explaining Arthur to me, rather than reading a novel set in the times of Arthur.
I found it really entertaining how many times he was like "Yeah, Thomas Malory covered this really well, so imma skip it - he really liked tournaments and jousting."
I appreciated White's consideration for Arthur, Lancelot, and Guinevere, as all sympathetic and understandable characters - he even included a passage on why Guinevere shouldn't be vilified even when her actions seem confusing. I deeply appreciated that segment. I also appreciated the comedy of some of the hijinks of the various knights. There's a scene where two knights dress up as a beast and hilarity ensues.
CW: Arthurian lore is full of misogyny, SA, incest, domestic abuse, violence of all kinds, racism, religious weirdness (very early Catholicism). Discussions of ethics, morality, and rightness, sometimes dismissive of individuals, and in particular women and poor folks.
For his part, White doesn't overly focus on the gore and sexual abuse segments of the lore, though they are referenced, and does not overly exalt in the gore and violence either. I thought he did a good job of balancing these subjects without making the book really difficult to read.
I found it really entertaining how many times he was like "Yeah, Thomas Malory covered this really well, so imma skip it - he really liked tournaments and jousting."
I appreciated White's consideration for Arthur, Lancelot, and Guinevere, as all sympathetic and understandable characters - he even included a passage on why Guinevere shouldn't be vilified even when her actions seem confusing. I deeply appreciated that segment. I also appreciated the comedy of some of the hijinks of the various knights. There's a scene where two knights dress up as a beast and hilarity ensues.
CW: Arthurian lore is full of misogyny, SA, incest, domestic abuse, violence of all kinds, racism, religious weirdness (very early Catholicism). Discussions of ethics, morality, and rightness, sometimes dismissive of individuals, and in particular women and poor folks.
For his part, White doesn't overly focus on the gore and sexual abuse segments of the lore, though they are referenced, and does not overly exalt in the gore and violence either. I thought he did a good job of balancing these subjects without making the book really difficult to read.
August 4, 2017
Younger than I remembered, but still very rich in places. Maybe most interesting, was White's voice -his narrator is visible at times, and firmly rooted in the 20th century. His social commentary is relevant and often witty.
Some quotes:
'I never could stomach these nationalists', he exclaimed. 'The destiny of man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing, you end up as a collection of monkeys, throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees.'
'Life is too bitter already, without territories, and wars, and noble feuds.'
'You must remember that I have been away in strange and desert places, sometimes quite alone, sometimes alone in a boat with nobody but god and the whistling sea. Do you know - since I've been back with people, I've felt I was going mad. Not from the sea, but from the people.'
Some quotes:
'I never could stomach these nationalists', he exclaimed. 'The destiny of man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing, you end up as a collection of monkeys, throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees.'
'Life is too bitter already, without territories, and wars, and noble feuds.'
'You must remember that I have been away in strange and desert places, sometimes quite alone, sometimes alone in a boat with nobody but god and the whistling sea. Do you know - since I've been back with people, I've felt I was going mad. Not from the sea, but from the people.'
May 4, 2020
Unlike the first book, the second book has a wild tone. Here is some more lame comedy about the questing beast, and now a scene where children sloppily behead a unicorn. The third book is great!The dramatic scenes between Lancelot, Guinevere, and Elaine are thrilling. There is also some excellent commentary on the human condition. A very creative frame for telling the quest for the grail in the voice of knights who failed.
“Few people can hate so bitterly and so self-righteously as the members of a ruling caste which is being dispossessed.”
“Mordred and Agravain thought Arthur hypocritical, as all decent men must be, if you assume decency can’t exist.”
What I learned: A shillelagh is a type of club.
“Few people can hate so bitterly and so self-righteously as the members of a ruling caste which is being dispossessed.”
“Mordred and Agravain thought Arthur hypocritical, as all decent men must be, if you assume decency can’t exist.”
What I learned: A shillelagh is a type of club.
January 27, 2025
The Ill-Made Knight is Lancelot. One of the earliest Arthurian legend books. "Camelot", the play, and later less magical versions of the Arthurian legend follow this and the Once and Future King. In this version, Geneveire is portrayed as a shrew and Lancelot is an ugly man who is lovesick for Geneveire. Merlin disappears, but Morgawse and Mordred are there.
December 13, 2023
First time reading any stories of King Arthur, Queen Guinevere, Merlin, Sir Lancelot, Elaine & all the rest. Very good stories, but, sorry to read what my namesake was like. Maybe I’ll find another Elaine to look up to.
April 15, 2024
Both are so much darker than book 1, but especially book 2. Book 3 bogged down in the middle a bit for me when all the people came home and talked endlessly about their quests. I preferred the narrator telling me what was happening.
June 15, 2017
I love Books about King Arthur. Found it light and easy to listen to.
February 3, 2018
This audio version of T.H. White's fine story read by Neville Jason is smooth and well produced. All together the product is soothing and charming.
December 30, 2014
The narrator is wonderful as always. The story, however, wasn't as good as "The Sword in the Stone". The main reason being Guinevere is so HATEABLE in this book. T. H. Whites portrayal of her is sadly very sexist and dated. Both Elaine and Guinevere are incredibly loathsome creatures in this book, and very much a product of the time T. H. White was living in rather than believable characters unto themselves.
Displaying 1 - 18 of 18 reviews