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When the Wolves Bite: Two Billionaires, One Company, and an Epic Wall Street Battle
The inside story of the clash of two of Wall Street's biggest, richest, toughest, most aggressive players--Carl Icahn and Bill Ackman--and the little company caught in the middle.
With their unprecedented amounts of capital and their savvy understanding of business, activist investors Carl Icahn and Bill Ackman have the ability to move markets and change the fortunes of investors, workers, and even large companies with the flick of a wrist. But what happens when they run into the one thing in business they can't control: each other?
On January 25, 2013, Scott Wapner, the host of CNBC's The Halftime Report, found out firsthand. Ackman and Icahn engaged in an uninterrupted, twenty-seven-minute televised war of accusations and insults over a company called Herbalife, on which they had opposing views--and opposing financial bets. The story quickly went viral and was called "the best business television ever" by Jim Cramer.
It was far from the beginning, and even farther from the end. Their feud became a years-long saga, complete with shifting allegiances, lawsuits, and financial roller coaster rides. For this book, Wapner has gained unprecedented access to all the players and unravels this remarkable war of egos, showing the extreme measures the participants were willing to take. The result is both a rollicking business story and a cautionary tale about the power that, ten years after the financial crisis, still lives in the hands of a precious few.
With their unprecedented amounts of capital and their savvy understanding of business, activist investors Carl Icahn and Bill Ackman have the ability to move markets and change the fortunes of investors, workers, and even large companies with the flick of a wrist. But what happens when they run into the one thing in business they can't control: each other?
On January 25, 2013, Scott Wapner, the host of CNBC's The Halftime Report, found out firsthand. Ackman and Icahn engaged in an uninterrupted, twenty-seven-minute televised war of accusations and insults over a company called Herbalife, on which they had opposing views--and opposing financial bets. The story quickly went viral and was called "the best business television ever" by Jim Cramer.
It was far from the beginning, and even farther from the end. Their feud became a years-long saga, complete with shifting allegiances, lawsuits, and financial roller coaster rides. For this book, Wapner has gained unprecedented access to all the players and unravels this remarkable war of egos, showing the extreme measures the participants were willing to take. The result is both a rollicking business story and a cautionary tale about the power that, ten years after the financial crisis, still lives in the hands of a precious few.
256 pages, Hardcover
Published April 24, 2018
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May 27, 2018
Highly entertaining hedge fund porn featuring larger than life characters with their outsized egos.
A fly in the wall scoop on the real life "Wall Street" drama.
Bill Ackman & Carl Icahn clash on CNBC in 2013
https://youtu.be/hCZRk1lL90Q
New Yorker article
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/201...
The Big Short War: Ackman vs Loeb & Icahn Mar 7, 2013
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/...
Ackman’s bloopers:
* Gotham Golf
* Target lost HF friends $ (incl. Dan Loeb, Einhorn, Jamie Dinan) via $2b SPAC (special purpose acquisition vehicle)
* JCPenney
* Borders
* First Union Real Estate
* Valeant $3b loss = one of the worst losses in HF history
* Herbalife short
The Real Bill Ackman “Frequently wrong, always in denial”
https://www.facebook.com/TheRealBillA...
Meet The Soros Portfolio Manager Who Worked On Breaking 'The Back Of Ackman' - Paul Sohn
http://www.businessinsider.com/soros-...
John Oliver on Herbalife
https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI
To the victor goes the spoils: Carl Icahn’s interview on CNBC after Bill Ackman capitulated Feb 28, 2018
https://youtu.be/q5oLUDGyHxI
Excerpts from ‘When the Wolves Bite’
Companies were flush with cash and could borrow it at record low interest rates, and shareholders were hungry for a bigger piece of that pie. Enter the shareholder activist to get it for them, typically using a familiar playbook—usually a spin-off, share-buyback, or cost-cutting initiative—always in the name of unlocking more value for all shareholders.
There is less reason to think (activists) are making the economy much more efficient, and more reason to be concerned that they are perhaps pushing steady societal wealth on a riskier course that has no substantial long-term upside, too often activists pressure companies to cut costs, add debt, sell divisions and increase share repurchases, rather than invest in jobs, R&D and growth,” and that any value created by activists is “often short-lived and sometimes comes at the expense of long-term success, if not survival.”
Focus on “long-term value creation” rather than on buybacks and other initiatives.
Ackman didn’t want to do another public short after MBIA, “It’s a huge strain on the organization, and you get a lot of this negative press, and everyone hates you. That’s really the answer.”
When David Einhorn speaks, investors around the markets listen. So when he asks critical questions on a company’s earnings calls, shareholders apparently panic.
“While the short seller’s presentation was lengthy, it presented no evidence to show that Herbalife has crossed a line that would compel regulators to shut it down.
In our experience, expert regulators like those at the FTC do not respond to sudden pressure from hedge fund whistleblowers by acceding blindly to their demands.” - Dan Loeb, Third Point
Carl Icahn on Ackman: “Even if I was a friend I would never invest with this guy. Because I tell you, the guy takes inordinate risks.
He goes short 20 percent of a company. Goes out there, and I will tell you this could be the mother of all short squeezes.
He took an inordinate risk because a company like Herbalife, you can ask almost any pro, you don’t go 20 percent.
You go in and you got 20 percent and if there is a squeeze, which well might be in Herbalife, what the hell does he do? I would like him to answer, where does he get the stock when they call back all the stock? Let’s say there’s a tender offer for Herbalife and they call back the stock. If you know, Wall Street, on a tender offer, everybody calls back the stock you borrowed. If that happens, that stock could rush to a hundred. What the hell does Ackman do?”
“Ackman is explaining that he has this short position, and Carl said it’s a very dangerous thing to do and let’s start looking at this. We started buying it right away.” - IEP
The Icahn Manifesto: It is our contention that sizable profits can be earned by taking large positions in ‘undervalued’ stocks and then attempting to control the destinies of the companies in question by: a) trying to convince management to liquidate or sell the company to a ‘white knight.’ b) waging a proxy contest. c) making a tender offer. d) selling back our position to the company.
The opportunity to sell was simply too good to pass up.
“That, for us, was a gift; we decided to take the money and run,” Loeb
Icahn’s board seats were more than simply symbolic. “He has a board level opportunity to get some questions answered. That’s worth something,”
“There were many lies of omission and commission in the Ackman report. They had clearly annoyingly manipulated charts and manipulated data in a way that to me was a big red flag.” - Paul Sohn, Soros Fund
* So, the answers that were coming from thousands of distributors just seemed to completely debunk the short thesis
* Why couldn't Pershing Square commission a customer survey?
* I said we had done enough to know that the short thesis is wrong, but you know, he must know something we don’t know. Ackman must be playing some cards that we don’t know because otherwise this is crazy. I mean, that survey cost us $25,000. He committed a billion dollars without doing a similar survey?
* I asked him a couple of questions, and his responses were such that I remember thinking to myself ‘The Emperor has no clothes,’ like he truly knows less about this than I do.”
* I was kind of hoping to get some pushback—you know, part of the reason you pitch something like that is that maybe there’s something you hadn’t seen or hadn’t been a part of. But I didn’t get much pushback.
Why did Ackman leave himself so vulnerable ? Now he sounds like crybaby
“There were people working together to try to squeeze me out,” Ackman said. “How many times did Icahn go on TV and say this could be the mother of all short squeezes? That was a call to action for every trader to buy the stock.”
“You’re not going to get me to say bad things about Ackman. I like Ackman,” Icahn said as the room broke into laughter. “I’ve changed my thinking on Ackman. Anybody that makes me a quarter of a billion dollars I like.”
When I read that report, what he wrote, I was looking at myself thinking, this makes no sense.… First of all, it’s stupid to take that big of a short position anyway, but if you do, the dumbest thing in my mind is that you get a room full of people and tell them that you’re short and then they tell you wow, wow, wow the stock is going to go down. I think the guy honestly believed that people were going to follow him, and you know he’s not the best thought-of man on Wall Street. Hey, but I like him now, so I’m not going to say bad thing about him.
Over at Pershing Square several of the advisors openly suggesting it might be time to throw in the towel on Herbalife. Even Ackman, who’d always had the ability to remain resolute through the ups and downs of the investment, seemed to have reached a tipping point, believing that the firm had done great research and was content that they had given it their best shot.
* sometimes it’s safer to pull the ripcord than wait for a crash
“I hope Bill Ackman has done more research on Valeant than he did on Herbalife, Target, Borders, and JC Penney,” said Herbalife’s executive vice president, Alan Hoffman,
Ackman on Valeant/Platform Specialty Products: We assigned too much platform value to the company.”
“It amazes me that a guy who hasn’t any knowledge of my internal investment thinking believes he is in a position to go on television to tell the world what I AM thinking!” - Carl Icahn’s response to Ackman’s comments that he was considering exiting Herbalife
A fly in the wall scoop on the real life "Wall Street" drama.
Bill Ackman & Carl Icahn clash on CNBC in 2013
https://youtu.be/hCZRk1lL90Q
New Yorker article
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/201...
The Big Short War: Ackman vs Loeb & Icahn Mar 7, 2013
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/...
Ackman’s bloopers:
* Gotham Golf
* Target lost HF friends $ (incl. Dan Loeb, Einhorn, Jamie Dinan) via $2b SPAC (special purpose acquisition vehicle)
* JCPenney
* Borders
* First Union Real Estate
* Valeant $3b loss = one of the worst losses in HF history
* Herbalife short
The Real Bill Ackman “Frequently wrong, always in denial”
https://www.facebook.com/TheRealBillA...
Meet The Soros Portfolio Manager Who Worked On Breaking 'The Back Of Ackman' - Paul Sohn
http://www.businessinsider.com/soros-...
John Oliver on Herbalife
https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI
To the victor goes the spoils: Carl Icahn’s interview on CNBC after Bill Ackman capitulated Feb 28, 2018
https://youtu.be/q5oLUDGyHxI
Excerpts from ‘When the Wolves Bite’
Companies were flush with cash and could borrow it at record low interest rates, and shareholders were hungry for a bigger piece of that pie. Enter the shareholder activist to get it for them, typically using a familiar playbook—usually a spin-off, share-buyback, or cost-cutting initiative—always in the name of unlocking more value for all shareholders.
There is less reason to think (activists) are making the economy much more efficient, and more reason to be concerned that they are perhaps pushing steady societal wealth on a riskier course that has no substantial long-term upside, too often activists pressure companies to cut costs, add debt, sell divisions and increase share repurchases, rather than invest in jobs, R&D and growth,” and that any value created by activists is “often short-lived and sometimes comes at the expense of long-term success, if not survival.”
Focus on “long-term value creation” rather than on buybacks and other initiatives.
Ackman didn’t want to do another public short after MBIA, “It’s a huge strain on the organization, and you get a lot of this negative press, and everyone hates you. That’s really the answer.”
When David Einhorn speaks, investors around the markets listen. So when he asks critical questions on a company’s earnings calls, shareholders apparently panic.
“While the short seller’s presentation was lengthy, it presented no evidence to show that Herbalife has crossed a line that would compel regulators to shut it down.
In our experience, expert regulators like those at the FTC do not respond to sudden pressure from hedge fund whistleblowers by acceding blindly to their demands.” - Dan Loeb, Third Point
Carl Icahn on Ackman: “Even if I was a friend I would never invest with this guy. Because I tell you, the guy takes inordinate risks.
He goes short 20 percent of a company. Goes out there, and I will tell you this could be the mother of all short squeezes.
He took an inordinate risk because a company like Herbalife, you can ask almost any pro, you don’t go 20 percent.
You go in and you got 20 percent and if there is a squeeze, which well might be in Herbalife, what the hell does he do? I would like him to answer, where does he get the stock when they call back all the stock? Let’s say there’s a tender offer for Herbalife and they call back the stock. If you know, Wall Street, on a tender offer, everybody calls back the stock you borrowed. If that happens, that stock could rush to a hundred. What the hell does Ackman do?”
“Ackman is explaining that he has this short position, and Carl said it’s a very dangerous thing to do and let’s start looking at this. We started buying it right away.” - IEP
The Icahn Manifesto: It is our contention that sizable profits can be earned by taking large positions in ‘undervalued’ stocks and then attempting to control the destinies of the companies in question by: a) trying to convince management to liquidate or sell the company to a ‘white knight.’ b) waging a proxy contest. c) making a tender offer. d) selling back our position to the company.
The opportunity to sell was simply too good to pass up.
“That, for us, was a gift; we decided to take the money and run,” Loeb
Icahn’s board seats were more than simply symbolic. “He has a board level opportunity to get some questions answered. That’s worth something,”
“There were many lies of omission and commission in the Ackman report. They had clearly annoyingly manipulated charts and manipulated data in a way that to me was a big red flag.” - Paul Sohn, Soros Fund
* So, the answers that were coming from thousands of distributors just seemed to completely debunk the short thesis
* Why couldn't Pershing Square commission a customer survey?
* I said we had done enough to know that the short thesis is wrong, but you know, he must know something we don’t know. Ackman must be playing some cards that we don’t know because otherwise this is crazy. I mean, that survey cost us $25,000. He committed a billion dollars without doing a similar survey?
* I asked him a couple of questions, and his responses were such that I remember thinking to myself ‘The Emperor has no clothes,’ like he truly knows less about this than I do.”
* I was kind of hoping to get some pushback—you know, part of the reason you pitch something like that is that maybe there’s something you hadn’t seen or hadn’t been a part of. But I didn’t get much pushback.
Why did Ackman leave himself so vulnerable ? Now he sounds like crybaby
“There were people working together to try to squeeze me out,” Ackman said. “How many times did Icahn go on TV and say this could be the mother of all short squeezes? That was a call to action for every trader to buy the stock.”
“You’re not going to get me to say bad things about Ackman. I like Ackman,” Icahn said as the room broke into laughter. “I’ve changed my thinking on Ackman. Anybody that makes me a quarter of a billion dollars I like.”
When I read that report, what he wrote, I was looking at myself thinking, this makes no sense.… First of all, it’s stupid to take that big of a short position anyway, but if you do, the dumbest thing in my mind is that you get a room full of people and tell them that you’re short and then they tell you wow, wow, wow the stock is going to go down. I think the guy honestly believed that people were going to follow him, and you know he’s not the best thought-of man on Wall Street. Hey, but I like him now, so I’m not going to say bad thing about him.
Over at Pershing Square several of the advisors openly suggesting it might be time to throw in the towel on Herbalife. Even Ackman, who’d always had the ability to remain resolute through the ups and downs of the investment, seemed to have reached a tipping point, believing that the firm had done great research and was content that they had given it their best shot.
* sometimes it’s safer to pull the ripcord than wait for a crash
“I hope Bill Ackman has done more research on Valeant than he did on Herbalife, Target, Borders, and JC Penney,” said Herbalife’s executive vice president, Alan Hoffman,
Ackman on Valeant/Platform Specialty Products: We assigned too much platform value to the company.”
“It amazes me that a guy who hasn’t any knowledge of my internal investment thinking believes he is in a position to go on television to tell the world what I AM thinking!” - Carl Icahn’s response to Ackman’s comments that he was considering exiting Herbalife
January 6, 2020
I first became interested in the epic battle over the future of Herbalife by watching a documentary. Bill Ackman had bet enormous sums of money that Herbalife was nothing but a huge pyramid scheme (the more pleasant term with less baggage is "multi-layered marketing" - one is illegal, the other legal. Personally, I find but little difference between them.)
What was astonishing was the amount of money thrown around in pursuit of even larger amounts of money and how each of the titans, Icahn and Ackman (one going long the other short respectively, used huge sums and PR in attempts to manipulate the market to their advantage; small investor and company employees matter for little. The market would move in substantial gains or losses simply by one or the other buying or selling large blocks of stock or by making comments in the press.
Scott Wapner, the author, is a business reporter for CNBC, and one couldn't help but wonder if he wasn't being manipulated by the parties as well. He was eager for the scoop by having "breaking news" on his show and they were eager to use his platform for their own financial gain. It was on his show that the famous verbal brawl occurred between Ackman and Icahn. Lasting almost the entire show they hurled insults at each other. "Apparently, if you have enough cash to spend, it doesn’t seem terribly difficult to weaponize social justice in the cause of your portfolio," said one observer.
Troubling, too, is the outsize influence these billionaires have with federal regulators like the FTC. Their money gives them instant access. Moreover, their decisions, we learn, may be influenced as much by personal animosities as good business, although none of them would ever admit it. Unfortunately those decisions have disproportionate impact on smaller investors.
Fascinating book.
What was astonishing was the amount of money thrown around in pursuit of even larger amounts of money and how each of the titans, Icahn and Ackman (one going long the other short respectively, used huge sums and PR in attempts to manipulate the market to their advantage; small investor and company employees matter for little. The market would move in substantial gains or losses simply by one or the other buying or selling large blocks of stock or by making comments in the press.
Scott Wapner, the author, is a business reporter for CNBC, and one couldn't help but wonder if he wasn't being manipulated by the parties as well. He was eager for the scoop by having "breaking news" on his show and they were eager to use his platform for their own financial gain. It was on his show that the famous verbal brawl occurred between Ackman and Icahn. Lasting almost the entire show they hurled insults at each other. "Apparently, if you have enough cash to spend, it doesn’t seem terribly difficult to weaponize social justice in the cause of your portfolio," said one observer.
Troubling, too, is the outsize influence these billionaires have with federal regulators like the FTC. Their money gives them instant access. Moreover, their decisions, we learn, may be influenced as much by personal animosities as good business, although none of them would ever admit it. Unfortunately those decisions have disproportionate impact on smaller investors.
Fascinating book.
July 26, 2018
Two words for this : Finance Porn
Got familiar with the world of activist hedge funds through the book on Marissa Mayer and the fight to save Yahoo. Now binging on a series of similar books
Got familiar with the world of activist hedge funds through the book on Marissa Mayer and the fight to save Yahoo. Now binging on a series of similar books
March 8, 2024
Fascinating book. Written from unique vantage point due to the fact the author hosts a show on CNBC and had a personal relationship with the two foes in the story. Easy read. Makes you realize that certain individuals have the power to move markets by themselves
June 26, 2018
This is like “Barbarians at the Gate,” except nobody wins.
Nobody wins because everything sensible that can be done by corporate raiders has already been done. So the sharks take on one another.
A TV anchor who depends on their ilk to come to his daily show is probably not the guy to present the story from that angle. So he doesn’t…
The flip side is that he knows them very well. So you do get the whole dirt here and you totally get it from the horse’s mouth. As a long profile of Carl Icahn or Bill Ackman, this is tops.
And here’s another thing: I read the FT every day (and also used to read the WSJ every day before Murdoch bought it) and I have to say that until I picked up “When Wolves Bite” it had not sunk in with me that David Einhorn and Bill Ackman are different people: the story’s always the same when you read it in the paper: clean-shaven hedge fund guy announces that he’s bought shares in something semi-dead, is appointing directors and plans to milk it do death and wait until the stock market’s gone up enough that he can sell for a profit regardless.
Somewhere around page 68 it became clear to me that David Einhorn and Bill Ackman are different people, because the former’s appearance in the book ends and there’s some 150-odd pages left.
The book never picks up, there’s no closure, nor any real scrutiny of Herbalife, but if you’re looking for takeover porn and you’ve already read Barbarians five times, it’s not too bad at all.
The proof is I read it in the space of three days!
Nobody wins because everything sensible that can be done by corporate raiders has already been done. So the sharks take on one another.
A TV anchor who depends on their ilk to come to his daily show is probably not the guy to present the story from that angle. So he doesn’t…
The flip side is that he knows them very well. So you do get the whole dirt here and you totally get it from the horse’s mouth. As a long profile of Carl Icahn or Bill Ackman, this is tops.
And here’s another thing: I read the FT every day (and also used to read the WSJ every day before Murdoch bought it) and I have to say that until I picked up “When Wolves Bite” it had not sunk in with me that David Einhorn and Bill Ackman are different people: the story’s always the same when you read it in the paper: clean-shaven hedge fund guy announces that he’s bought shares in something semi-dead, is appointing directors and plans to milk it do death and wait until the stock market’s gone up enough that he can sell for a profit regardless.
Somewhere around page 68 it became clear to me that David Einhorn and Bill Ackman are different people, because the former’s appearance in the book ends and there’s some 150-odd pages left.
The book never picks up, there’s no closure, nor any real scrutiny of Herbalife, but if you’re looking for takeover porn and you’ve already read Barbarians five times, it’s not too bad at all.
The proof is I read it in the space of three days!
December 14, 2018
2 rich cats putting opposing bids on Herbalife stocks and battling to control the story to manipulate the stock in their favor.
Interesting to read about the moves they make (both major and subtle) and to gain the edge. It’s an industry that is foreign to me and it’s interesting to see how they play their game!! It’s also crazy to hear the amounts of “money” these guys lose and gain in an instant!
Interesting to read about the moves they make (both major and subtle) and to gain the edge. It’s an industry that is foreign to me and it’s interesting to see how they play their game!! It’s also crazy to hear the amounts of “money” these guys lose and gain in an instant!
April 28, 2025
A compelling read.
Provides fascinating insight into wall street and hedge funds. Specifically about two obsessively competitive personalities battling each other over a company.
Tug of war over who wins and what they do to get their way, keeps you hooked.
Well written but the conclusion wasn't satisfying enough. Ends by alluding the tussle still ongoing, when would have preferred a good close on how it eventually ended.
Provides fascinating insight into wall street and hedge funds. Specifically about two obsessively competitive personalities battling each other over a company.
Tug of war over who wins and what they do to get their way, keeps you hooked.
Well written but the conclusion wasn't satisfying enough. Ends by alluding the tussle still ongoing, when would have preferred a good close on how it eventually ended.
June 1, 2018
I'm not sure if this book was really intended to be about the Herbalife battle between Bill Ackman and Carl Icahn or about the way billionaire hedge fund managers use company ownership to fight with each other. It seems to be both.
The Herbalife fight started when David Einhorn took a short position against the company based on its business practices. Bill Ackman quickly jumped in as well, but Einhorn didn't stay. He attended a shareholder meeting and asked a few pointed questions to the CEO. Those questions drew broad attention and caused the stock price for Herbalife to drop by 40%. Then Einhorn took his profit and got out. But Bill Ackman stayed with his short position. He was convinced that the Herbalife company is nothing more than a pyramid scheme that targets the poor and minorities and that the company stock would be worthless when that came out. Meanwhile, Carl Icahn had the opposite view of Herbalife, and he bought a major stake in the company, starting the war. They were not the only players in this story, but they were the main characters.
Wapner does a good job of providing the background details of the Herbalife story and also provides more information on the men involved. I didn't find it a page turner that I couldn't put down, but it was interesting enough to keep my attention. If you have an interest in the stock market and the market makers, in particular, then you will probably like this book.
The Herbalife fight started when David Einhorn took a short position against the company based on its business practices. Bill Ackman quickly jumped in as well, but Einhorn didn't stay. He attended a shareholder meeting and asked a few pointed questions to the CEO. Those questions drew broad attention and caused the stock price for Herbalife to drop by 40%. Then Einhorn took his profit and got out. But Bill Ackman stayed with his short position. He was convinced that the Herbalife company is nothing more than a pyramid scheme that targets the poor and minorities and that the company stock would be worthless when that came out. Meanwhile, Carl Icahn had the opposite view of Herbalife, and he bought a major stake in the company, starting the war. They were not the only players in this story, but they were the main characters.
Wapner does a good job of providing the background details of the Herbalife story and also provides more information on the men involved. I didn't find it a page turner that I couldn't put down, but it was interesting enough to keep my attention. If you have an interest in the stock market and the market makers, in particular, then you will probably like this book.
January 7, 2026
Strong book that covers the high stakes Herbalife debacle between Ackman, Icahn, Hempton, Einhorn, Hoffman, Soros and many more.
An important question for me was how good was the Herbalife story vs the actual book. I concluded the latter outweighed the former which is why I ended with 4 stars - prolly 3.5 in all honesty.
Great description into some of the prominent investors involved - and the book had me full on listening to Ackman’s 3 hr pitch at Sohn, Einhorn famous allied financial short speed, and bookmarking Icahn’s books. The background on some 3P investments like Valeant, CP, Chesapeake, etc were also great and got me super interested.
I read the first half of the book non stop for 3-4 hours, but at the back half I felt the book was cut too short. I felt there was more detail than the 200 pages provided, the ending wasn’t great, and some important aspects (like the smoking gun of Ackmans internal video) we’re not included > even through it was posted on CNBC?
Overall a great story and some great background by the author but felt there was some low hanging fruit that wasnt picked.
—
Notes:
Pershing / Ackman
- MBIA: Aclman activist short where he doubted the company’s AAA rating and that they’d crash w a weaker housing mkt
- Rockefeller center REIT - bought out of BK and sold sold for huge profit (60m -> 3.2b)
- Ackman dad ran Ackman Zoff
- Stern seeded - Och Ziff CM, Gotham Partners, etc
- Gotham Golf - big early money loser
- Pre paid legal services - heavy SI MLM that Gotham Partners was long
- Hallwood Dallas REIT - Ackman sold for 80 (Originally $60/sh) to Icahn - but put in “schmuck insurance” that they split profits above 10% -> instead the co. Merged w another co for 137 (after Icahn bid $139/sh) and Icahn pocketed the delta - technically he didn’t sell so he didn’t return $$ to Ackman -> this was the original beef
- Wendy’s - successful campaign to spin off Tim Hortons
- McDonald’s- reject 2-3x but plan was to re-franchise co operated stores -> eventually they bought back $1B of shares and refranchised some
- Target - fail where board voted against Ackman
- JCP- Ackman appointed Ron Johnson who removed JCP’s sales and had rlly bad ideas to run the company
HLF
- Hughes - OG HLF founder that had a background in deceptive marketing + MLM
- Johnson - 2nd CEO who re-IPO’d the co and came from Disney’s distribution channel
- Einhorn got on the call and asked what percent of sales were to true consumers - Johnson said 70 but it was wrong
- JCP - bought up to 26% again to regain the turnaround
- CP - great return with Hunter Harrison @ the helm
Einhorn
- Boston mkt - initial short for their 3 month 37% return
- Green coffee - short that their K cup sales would wane
- Lehman - short; accused them of hiding stuff on B/S
- Allied Financial - short; fraud with govt’s SBA system
HLF saga
- Moelis LA gets involved as the HLF advisor
- Ackman pitches @ Sohn for 3.5 hrs
- John Hempton / Chapman write abt it in his blog that he BOUGHT shares bc the co is too profitable
Dan Loeb
- long HLF as he hired MLM lawyers who didn’t find a fraud
- Penn Virginia Corp - dissed their $112M acquisition as it was at peak nat gas cycle
- Star Gas Partners - just dissed them on value destruction
- Yahoo - wanted to appoint a CEO after they rejected MSFT buyout offer, as he thought founde Jerry Yang was not aligned (wanted PE to white knight) - finally he ousted Thompson as CEO and took 3 board seats
Icahn
- Tappan - first campaign where he got the company to sell off for 2x
- Saxon Indhstries - bought back the shares at 30% premium
- ACF - railcar mfg that Icahn sold for $500M LBO and sold off NYC offices and other cost cuts
- TWA - Airline that Icahn threatened for LBO; they wanted Lorenzo white knight but unions sided with Icahn - BUT Icahn started heavy cost cutting and then LBO’d to run profit - ultimately it went Ch11 but Icahn was top creditor so he cashed in
- Time Warner - launched proxy to oust CEO
- Overall 50% IRR; charges 2.5/25
Back to HLF
- KPMG resigned as auditor as the VP/MD on the deal was insider trading
- Soros bought a stake through Sohn who did prop diligence to counter Ackman
- Ackman finds that Congresswoman Sanchez wrote a letter to the FTC to investigate HLF
- They start painting that HLF hurts poor Hispanics and work with non profits - that convinces the FTC
- SEC and FTC finally get involved through Ed Markey’s calling
- Ackman RX’s the short into LT puts to manage risk
Valeant
- Chanos was the first short - critiqued levered M&A strat
- Then Hempton who mailed Ackman “Philidor”
- Ackman pocketed $1.2B to quasi ins trading after its stock shot up after Ackman and Valeant bought in
- Philidor - distributor that caused Valeant to circumvent physician price negotiation and up charges clients (esp bad since they 10x’d prices after each acquisition)
- Ackman bought more and lost a TON on Valeant
Back to Icahn
- lost money on Chesapeake and Cheniere energy as nat gas prices fell
- Huge Apple success - became close with Cook, Apple bought back stock, and got EPS growth (2013 investment)
HLF
- FTC released no pyramid scheme but that compensation system needed to be shifted to how much distributors sell
- Ackman shirts more
An important question for me was how good was the Herbalife story vs the actual book. I concluded the latter outweighed the former which is why I ended with 4 stars - prolly 3.5 in all honesty.
Great description into some of the prominent investors involved - and the book had me full on listening to Ackman’s 3 hr pitch at Sohn, Einhorn famous allied financial short speed, and bookmarking Icahn’s books. The background on some 3P investments like Valeant, CP, Chesapeake, etc were also great and got me super interested.
I read the first half of the book non stop for 3-4 hours, but at the back half I felt the book was cut too short. I felt there was more detail than the 200 pages provided, the ending wasn’t great, and some important aspects (like the smoking gun of Ackmans internal video) we’re not included > even through it was posted on CNBC?
Overall a great story and some great background by the author but felt there was some low hanging fruit that wasnt picked.
—
Notes:
Pershing / Ackman
- MBIA: Aclman activist short where he doubted the company’s AAA rating and that they’d crash w a weaker housing mkt
- Rockefeller center REIT - bought out of BK and sold sold for huge profit (60m -> 3.2b)
- Ackman dad ran Ackman Zoff
- Stern seeded - Och Ziff CM, Gotham Partners, etc
- Gotham Golf - big early money loser
- Pre paid legal services - heavy SI MLM that Gotham Partners was long
- Hallwood Dallas REIT - Ackman sold for 80 (Originally $60/sh) to Icahn - but put in “schmuck insurance” that they split profits above 10% -> instead the co. Merged w another co for 137 (after Icahn bid $139/sh) and Icahn pocketed the delta - technically he didn’t sell so he didn’t return $$ to Ackman -> this was the original beef
- Wendy’s - successful campaign to spin off Tim Hortons
- McDonald’s- reject 2-3x but plan was to re-franchise co operated stores -> eventually they bought back $1B of shares and refranchised some
- Target - fail where board voted against Ackman
- JCP- Ackman appointed Ron Johnson who removed JCP’s sales and had rlly bad ideas to run the company
HLF
- Hughes - OG HLF founder that had a background in deceptive marketing + MLM
- Johnson - 2nd CEO who re-IPO’d the co and came from Disney’s distribution channel
- Einhorn got on the call and asked what percent of sales were to true consumers - Johnson said 70 but it was wrong
- JCP - bought up to 26% again to regain the turnaround
- CP - great return with Hunter Harrison @ the helm
Einhorn
- Boston mkt - initial short for their 3 month 37% return
- Green coffee - short that their K cup sales would wane
- Lehman - short; accused them of hiding stuff on B/S
- Allied Financial - short; fraud with govt’s SBA system
HLF saga
- Moelis LA gets involved as the HLF advisor
- Ackman pitches @ Sohn for 3.5 hrs
- John Hempton / Chapman write abt it in his blog that he BOUGHT shares bc the co is too profitable
Dan Loeb
- long HLF as he hired MLM lawyers who didn’t find a fraud
- Penn Virginia Corp - dissed their $112M acquisition as it was at peak nat gas cycle
- Star Gas Partners - just dissed them on value destruction
- Yahoo - wanted to appoint a CEO after they rejected MSFT buyout offer, as he thought founde Jerry Yang was not aligned (wanted PE to white knight) - finally he ousted Thompson as CEO and took 3 board seats
Icahn
- Tappan - first campaign where he got the company to sell off for 2x
- Saxon Indhstries - bought back the shares at 30% premium
- ACF - railcar mfg that Icahn sold for $500M LBO and sold off NYC offices and other cost cuts
- TWA - Airline that Icahn threatened for LBO; they wanted Lorenzo white knight but unions sided with Icahn - BUT Icahn started heavy cost cutting and then LBO’d to run profit - ultimately it went Ch11 but Icahn was top creditor so he cashed in
- Time Warner - launched proxy to oust CEO
- Overall 50% IRR; charges 2.5/25
Back to HLF
- KPMG resigned as auditor as the VP/MD on the deal was insider trading
- Soros bought a stake through Sohn who did prop diligence to counter Ackman
- Ackman finds that Congresswoman Sanchez wrote a letter to the FTC to investigate HLF
- They start painting that HLF hurts poor Hispanics and work with non profits - that convinces the FTC
- SEC and FTC finally get involved through Ed Markey’s calling
- Ackman RX’s the short into LT puts to manage risk
Valeant
- Chanos was the first short - critiqued levered M&A strat
- Then Hempton who mailed Ackman “Philidor”
- Ackman pocketed $1.2B to quasi ins trading after its stock shot up after Ackman and Valeant bought in
- Philidor - distributor that caused Valeant to circumvent physician price negotiation and up charges clients (esp bad since they 10x’d prices after each acquisition)
- Ackman bought more and lost a TON on Valeant
Back to Icahn
- lost money on Chesapeake and Cheniere energy as nat gas prices fell
- Huge Apple success - became close with Cook, Apple bought back stock, and got EPS growth (2013 investment)
HLF
- FTC released no pyramid scheme but that compensation system needed to be shifted to how much distributors sell
- Ackman shirts more
February 11, 2019
If ever you want to stop a conversation about economics dead, just express the opinion that economists are at best behavioral social scientists with no predictive capacity, and the the economy as a whole is a giant confidence scheme. While I am steadfast on the first point, I have generally had less evidence to support the second and so have argued that point with more or less conviction.
When Wolves Bite has changed all of that. Never has there been a volume that has detailed with more breathless evangelist fervor the shallow ambition, pettiness, and blind stupidity that drives the Wall Street market economy. Wapner is so enthralled with his story of what he characterizes as an epic battle of financial titans he simply can't see that he is exposing that neither Ackman or Icahn have the least idea what the hell they are going to do next outside of their tedious and spite-driven series of personal attacks. When Wolves Bite demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that the entire hedge fund strategy is to wait out the opposition until your position improves enough that you can declare victory. Wapner pretends the billions at stake in the fight over Herbalife is proof that the struggle is 11th dimension chess, when really it is a game of Sorry missing the instructions and half the pieces. There is no strategy here, just macho posturing, self aggrandizing, flim flam, and cherry picked arguments. The only multidimensional aspect to this battle is Icahn and Ackman giving each other the finger. It's stupid and childish, but with billions at stake. The worrying thing is this transparent and selfish stupidity moves markets and so it attended to with all the devotion of a sermon by the market watchers.
Throughout this book I was continually searching for evidence that supported Wapner's thesis that there was any amount of value added to the companies victimized through these pirate raids, and was always left with blank admissions that the only improvements wrought by the wrecking crews are momentary improvements to the capital valuations of these acquisitions just prior to a complete collapse. The entire history of the hedge fund economy is a long-game version of the classic pump and dump operation, justified with a veneer of safeguarding shareholder investments. Legacy companies are plundered for the assets that should be safeguarded in case of hard times or as collateral to bankroll new equipment. Similarly, companies on the rise are considered under valued, and so are scooped up, dismembered entirely, and their innovations are sold to some profit maximizing entity.
This was a very eye-opening but very stupid book. It's readable, but the topic does not deserve the reverence Wapner gives it. You can tell that he is simply straining to get us to the good parts, the two or three parts where he was there, in the story. Tellingly Wapner has no interest in answering the key question of the book, which is the legitimacy of the Herbalife business model. If Ackman was right then the continued existence of Heralife demonstrates that Wall Street is a terrible tool for clearing out bad apples. If Icahn was right then the entire struggle over the company demonstrates the stupidity of a system that requires a multi-billionaire to protect legitimate businesses. If there is one major reason why this book rates lower than it might, it is that there isn't even a conclusion to the EPIC WALL STREET BATTLE. Both Ackman and Icahn quietly backed away from their untenable positions in Herbalife, and the whole struggle was revealed as a pissy fit that wasted everyone's time and energy.
When Wolves Bite has changed all of that. Never has there been a volume that has detailed with more breathless evangelist fervor the shallow ambition, pettiness, and blind stupidity that drives the Wall Street market economy. Wapner is so enthralled with his story of what he characterizes as an epic battle of financial titans he simply can't see that he is exposing that neither Ackman or Icahn have the least idea what the hell they are going to do next outside of their tedious and spite-driven series of personal attacks. When Wolves Bite demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that the entire hedge fund strategy is to wait out the opposition until your position improves enough that you can declare victory. Wapner pretends the billions at stake in the fight over Herbalife is proof that the struggle is 11th dimension chess, when really it is a game of Sorry missing the instructions and half the pieces. There is no strategy here, just macho posturing, self aggrandizing, flim flam, and cherry picked arguments. The only multidimensional aspect to this battle is Icahn and Ackman giving each other the finger. It's stupid and childish, but with billions at stake. The worrying thing is this transparent and selfish stupidity moves markets and so it attended to with all the devotion of a sermon by the market watchers.
Throughout this book I was continually searching for evidence that supported Wapner's thesis that there was any amount of value added to the companies victimized through these pirate raids, and was always left with blank admissions that the only improvements wrought by the wrecking crews are momentary improvements to the capital valuations of these acquisitions just prior to a complete collapse. The entire history of the hedge fund economy is a long-game version of the classic pump and dump operation, justified with a veneer of safeguarding shareholder investments. Legacy companies are plundered for the assets that should be safeguarded in case of hard times or as collateral to bankroll new equipment. Similarly, companies on the rise are considered under valued, and so are scooped up, dismembered entirely, and their innovations are sold to some profit maximizing entity.
This was a very eye-opening but very stupid book. It's readable, but the topic does not deserve the reverence Wapner gives it. You can tell that he is simply straining to get us to the good parts, the two or three parts where he was there, in the story. Tellingly Wapner has no interest in answering the key question of the book, which is the legitimacy of the Herbalife business model. If Ackman was right then the continued existence of Heralife demonstrates that Wall Street is a terrible tool for clearing out bad apples. If Icahn was right then the entire struggle over the company demonstrates the stupidity of a system that requires a multi-billionaire to protect legitimate businesses. If there is one major reason why this book rates lower than it might, it is that there isn't even a conclusion to the EPIC WALL STREET BATTLE. Both Ackman and Icahn quietly backed away from their untenable positions in Herbalife, and the whole struggle was revealed as a pissy fit that wasted everyone's time and energy.
March 27, 2025
i do this to myself, i read these voluntarily so i shouldn’t be mad at the book but it always makes me so ANGRY, these people who functionally run our entire economy, who are often just insecure men working out their petty interpersonal struggles by throwing money around and wreaking havoc on the rest of us. argh.
well. now that that’s out of the way!
wapner is good at making things like conferences and Mad Money shoutouts seem pretty momentous. i didn’t entirely follow every share or short but he kept the thread cleanly enough that i didn’t get lost. it made for very good corporate drama; it’s really a case study in how the mega rich fight using the rest of us as pawns (arrrrhgghgh!!). in the post-succession age, it did scratch an itch for high-stakes powerpoints.
i don’t think it really addressed herbalife as well as it could have, but frankly i am so dead-fucking-set against herbalife that i don’t mind that it lost the thread occasionally. (good time to mention my disclaimer: i came at this with an extreme bias. i hate to agree with bill ackman on anything but he’s always been right on the money (ha ha) about the fact that herbalife should be taken down.)
tldr this was a fun read, just be prepared to get furious at the fact that companies live and die off bill ackman’sdaddy icahn issues, or icahn’s superiority complex (or worse, the dude that thinks herbalife isa pyramid scheme and that’s why it’s a good investment. wanted to chew my own ear off out of frustration. sorry. couldn’t not include that.), and that people live and die over how well the ceo of a predatory mlm can woo old rich farts who control our lives. ARRHGHGHGH!!
enjoy :)
PS! WHAT A GOOD CASE STUDY FOR EMILY PAULSON TO CONSIDER. nearly EVERYONE in this book is a man. hm
well. now that that’s out of the way!
wapner is good at making things like conferences and Mad Money shoutouts seem pretty momentous. i didn’t entirely follow every share or short but he kept the thread cleanly enough that i didn’t get lost. it made for very good corporate drama; it’s really a case study in how the mega rich fight using the rest of us as pawns (arrrrhgghgh!!). in the post-succession age, it did scratch an itch for high-stakes powerpoints.
i don’t think it really addressed herbalife as well as it could have, but frankly i am so dead-fucking-set against herbalife that i don’t mind that it lost the thread occasionally. (good time to mention my disclaimer: i came at this with an extreme bias. i hate to agree with bill ackman on anything but he’s always been right on the money (ha ha) about the fact that herbalife should be taken down.)
tldr this was a fun read, just be prepared to get furious at the fact that companies live and die off bill ackman’s
enjoy :)
PS! WHAT A GOOD CASE STUDY FOR EMILY PAULSON TO CONSIDER. nearly EVERYONE in this book is a man. hm
March 16, 2019
Herbalife training materials described "magic numbers" that were needed to reach the higher levels of the pyramid.... A tiny fraction of those at the top of the pyramid are enormously successful.
Herbalife was called a predatory money trap.
Ackman wrote, on February 10, 2015, .....Every day the FTC fails to act, is another day for Herbalife to recruit 5000 more victims......
"In December 2012, Ackman, age 45 then, issued a research report criticizing Herbalife's multi-level marketing business model, calling it a pyramid scheme. Ackman disclosed that his hedge fund, Pershing Square Capital Management, sold short the company's shares directly (not with derivatives) starting in May 2012, causing Herbalife's stock price to drop. In 2014, Ackman spent $50 million on a public relations campaign against Herbalife, which was designed to hurt the company's stock price."
Ackman is now married to Neri Oxman (2019). She is an American–Israeli architect, designer, and professor at the MIT Media Lab, where she leads the Mediated Matter research group.
Chapter 4, Selling A Dream starts with the death on May 21, 2000, of the CEO of Herbalife International Inc. Mark Reynolds Hughes. He was 44; a binge drinker and cigar smoker. He had a rough upbringing; parents divorced when he was 13 and mother dying from an overdose at age 36. Yet, Hughes left an estate of around $400 million.
This is well worth reading for anyone. Remind yourself you are okay right where you are.
Herbalife was called a predatory money trap.
Ackman wrote, on February 10, 2015, .....Every day the FTC fails to act, is another day for Herbalife to recruit 5000 more victims......
"In December 2012, Ackman, age 45 then, issued a research report criticizing Herbalife's multi-level marketing business model, calling it a pyramid scheme. Ackman disclosed that his hedge fund, Pershing Square Capital Management, sold short the company's shares directly (not with derivatives) starting in May 2012, causing Herbalife's stock price to drop. In 2014, Ackman spent $50 million on a public relations campaign against Herbalife, which was designed to hurt the company's stock price."
Ackman is now married to Neri Oxman (2019). She is an American–Israeli architect, designer, and professor at the MIT Media Lab, where she leads the Mediated Matter research group.
Chapter 4, Selling A Dream starts with the death on May 21, 2000, of the CEO of Herbalife International Inc. Mark Reynolds Hughes. He was 44; a binge drinker and cigar smoker. He had a rough upbringing; parents divorced when he was 13 and mother dying from an overdose at age 36. Yet, Hughes left an estate of around $400 million.
This is well worth reading for anyone. Remind yourself you are okay right where you are.
September 20, 2018
This is my first Audio Book review. That said I will offer thoughts more on the book itself with a side comment on the Audio Book itself.
This book is fairly interesting in that it's about a battle between two billionaire activist investors on either side of an investment. Ackman who shorted Herbal Life and Ichan who bet on its stock to rise. The key seemingly to be to prove whether or not Herbal Life was a pyramid scheme or not.
The documenting of this battle is quite interesting and a look in to all the players culminating with the judgement passed on Herbal Life was engaging. I give it 4 stars which should be really be more 4.25 as I found the writing only occasionally engaging the story did hold my interest.
From an Audio Book perspective, it was OK, definitely 4 stars. The reading was good but slightly bland, not boring though.
I would recommend this book if you are interested in Wall Street chess matches.
April 7, 2019
First of all, this book have been compared by some reviewers to Barbarians at the Gate, which I found to be a five star rated book. Wapner’s book was not nearly that interesting or exciting at least to this reader. Frankly the two main characters and antagonists, Icahn and Ackman were primarily concerned with their own egos and greed. Wapner’s book was obviously well researched and he was personally involved in the reporting of this story as it happened. He dealt with both Carl Icahn and Bill Ackman. From my reading of this book, I tend to side with the argument that Herbalife was a pyramid scheme. But since I am not a lawyer or regulator, my opinion does not mean much.
This book read dry in many sections. It was like reading a Wall Street Journal article version of the story. Though I lived during the period this book took place, I don’t remember the story or the furor. I don’t think that this book would make a very good movie – – just my opinion.
This book read dry in many sections. It was like reading a Wall Street Journal article version of the story. Though I lived during the period this book took place, I don’t remember the story or the furor. I don’t think that this book would make a very good movie – – just my opinion.
May 4, 2019
You have to be a kind-of a business geek to enjoy this book. (Actually, it’s more like a long magazine article.) I was aware of Herbalife – but not the long and short stock trades. It’s shareholder activists and hedge funds, Carl Ichan and William Ackman … billionaires battling among themselves. (What individual could spend $50 million on research and attorneys in order to buy or sell a stock? These guys have so much money that they are able to lawyer-up and play the nuances and exceptions of corporate law. These hedge fund dudes even higher lobbyists to get the government involved in their trading positions in order to move the price of the stock.)
As far as I’m concerned though, all of this makes it look like the stock market can be (is) manipulated. The companies, investors and employees suffer.
As far as I’m concerned though, all of this makes it look like the stock market can be (is) manipulated. The companies, investors and employees suffer.
February 14, 2019
If you aren't familiar with the Herbalife story, this is probably a really good introduction. But the focus is really on the various disagreements between Carl Ichan & Bill Ackman without either coming out clean. They both seem like assholes to me, but in different ways.
Unfortunately, the length of their personal dispute revolves around just two investment deals one in which they were partners and the Herbalife thing where they were on opposite sides. So, although it's framed as this epic battle between investment titans (and it really was) it was narratively weak, IMHO. Another couple of minor, but escalating clashes before Herbalife to build tension might have made the story more compelling.
Unfortunately, the length of their personal dispute revolves around just two investment deals one in which they were partners and the Herbalife thing where they were on opposite sides. So, although it's framed as this epic battle between investment titans (and it really was) it was narratively weak, IMHO. Another couple of minor, but escalating clashes before Herbalife to build tension might have made the story more compelling.
February 15, 2020
This is a fascinating read about the world of hedge fund specifically two activist heavyweight investors - Ackman and Icahn. The former had a dogged bearish thesis on Herbalife whereas the latter joined the bullish camp for the sake of a spectacular battle with one of his arch enemy on Wall Street. The book had a slow start and along the chapters, some were irrelevant to the main story. But overall, a decent book about the competitiveness of the financial market as well as some of tactics the biggest players use to manipulate a particular company or stock in order to achieve monetary gains or prestige.
I recommend watching the documentary Betting on Zero (2016) after reading this book to put everything into perspective.
I recommend watching the documentary Betting on Zero (2016) after reading this book to put everything into perspective.
February 4, 2023
After watching the documentary "Dirty Money" about Valiant Pharmaceutical and listening to this audiobook about Herbal Life and Valiant, it looked like the whole drama TV could be broadcasted on streaming platform. I think billionaires have pride and wealth, and they would continue to expand their wealth or pride.
I would say that the greed factor or ego mattered in this battle. Whoever won or lost the financial battle, the suffering is the investors, the companies (including employees), and the customers. Driving stock price up and down base on the distribution of information and research hooked up a lot of attention from the public and the government, but the final outcomes was that somebody lost the money in this battle but won the money on the other battle. Nothing changed.
I would say that the greed factor or ego mattered in this battle. Whoever won or lost the financial battle, the suffering is the investors, the companies (including employees), and the customers. Driving stock price up and down base on the distribution of information and research hooked up a lot of attention from the public and the government, but the final outcomes was that somebody lost the money in this battle but won the money on the other battle. Nothing changed.
November 28, 2018
I can't really recommend this book - it was a huge letdown. Wapner is such a fanboy of the wealthy and their petty tirades that really thought the content of the book was much more epic than it was. The basic premise was alright: One trader sought to short Herbalife, and really felt it was a pyramid scheme. Herbalife fought back, and a bunch of Wall Street bigwigs jumped on their bandwagon. The end. Interesting without all the attention to their petty insult squabbles - which seemed to be Wapner's focus. The beginning and middle were good - the end arrives like a nocturnal rodent - gone before you even knew it was there.
December 3, 2018
Bill Ackman:
-Craves association w/ very accomplished people
-Measures himself based on his Net Worth
-Uses the media as a tool to prop himself up
-Sees himself as a celebrity
-Willing to go to great lengths to win even if it takes years to do so
Questions to Ask:
-How big is the company?
—Define “big” based on what metric?
-Who are your customers?
-Who are the largest shareholders?
Icahn:
-Redefined himself as a Activist Investor from a Corporate Raider
—Defined the term
Ackman Herbalife:
-Leveraged the public
-Sent letters to the SEC, FTC, and company asking for a probe into pyramid-scheme practices
-Craves association w/ very accomplished people
-Measures himself based on his Net Worth
-Uses the media as a tool to prop himself up
-Sees himself as a celebrity
-Willing to go to great lengths to win even if it takes years to do so
Questions to Ask:
-How big is the company?
—Define “big” based on what metric?
-Who are your customers?
-Who are the largest shareholders?
Icahn:
-Redefined himself as a Activist Investor from a Corporate Raider
—Defined the term
Ackman Herbalife:
-Leveraged the public
-Sent letters to the SEC, FTC, and company asking for a probe into pyramid-scheme practices
September 20, 2019
The war between (mostly) two investment titans, told from the perspective of a CNBC host (he wrote more pages about Ackman though). From his job, Scott talks to (legendary) investors on a daily basis, and has a strong knowledge of what are behind the scene. However, like a investment bank would rarely write a sell report on a company, the nature of Scott's job keeps him from writing things that he might possibly do in another capacity.
Overall good for a quick read that I finished in a few sittings. Should be a three and a half star, rather than four, but I watch Scott on his Half time Report everyday, so.
Overall good for a quick read that I finished in a few sittings. Should be a three and a half star, rather than four, but I watch Scott on his Half time Report everyday, so.
January 28, 2019
I found this very exciting--a thriller without a thrilling ending because it is non-fiction. Ackerman sort of wins vindication in his attack on the business practices of Herbalife. They are fined 200 m by the FTC . . . but they stay in business, so Ackerman sort of loses, too. Icahn, who stood by Herbalife, also does well. Somehow these guys do, don't they?
This book was a great look into big stock deals and bigger personalities. Rewritten as fiction with a clear victor (Ackerman--as he'd be bringing down the bad guy) this would make a great novel.
This book was a great look into big stock deals and bigger personalities. Rewritten as fiction with a clear victor (Ackerman--as he'd be bringing down the bad guy) this would make a great novel.
April 20, 2019
A book about a bunch of horrible people doing horrible things to one another and to horrible companies. Herbalife is a pretty massive scam which preys on poor Latinos, and one obnoxious hedge fund guy who mostly was just lucky a few times before decided to follow another smarter hedge fund guy’s fake-out into shorting it, then ended up basically at war with him when he went long. This is really more a 4.5/5 because there isn’t a lot of deep underlying truth here beyond ultra-rich assholes are still assholes, just with money, but it is still a worthwhile lesson.
September 26, 2019
Very interesting story behind the MLM company Herbalife and it's struggles with the SEC & wall st hedge fund managers.
I didn't know what I was getting into when I bought this book, I thought it was more about trading, something like the documentary "Inside Job" or the film "The Big Short".
I was not disappointed though, while it's not really about trading, it's a very eye opening look into the world of billionaires shorting public companies.
This book eventually becomes a Carl Icahn vs Bill Ackman tale.
I didn't know what I was getting into when I bought this book, I thought it was more about trading, something like the documentary "Inside Job" or the film "The Big Short".
I was not disappointed though, while it's not really about trading, it's a very eye opening look into the world of billionaires shorting public companies.
This book eventually becomes a Carl Icahn vs Bill Ackman tale.
January 28, 2023
I lived through these events and can't say this book added anything to what I witnessed as an observer in finance at the time. The words read like they were from a first time author and the book felt more like a longform Peopld Magazind article than anything else. If took me a while to get through because it was boring and detailed in the wrong ways. I'm not really sure what would make it better, but it definitely doesn't stand up to other books referenced in this one, such as Barbarians at the Gate.
October 15, 2020
This isn't my usual kind of read but, because I have a Latina friend on the board of Herbalife I've been curious about this story. It's a quick and interesting read, more gripping than I had imagined. Even though I've been in the financial world, it opened my eyes more to some of the crazy stuff that drives the market and shows, once again, the greed and arrogance and selfishness of Wall Street (in general). Worth a read.
July 2, 2021
Bill Ackman vs Herbalife + Carl Icahn.
I'd still like the see the movie Betting on Zero, but in the meanwhile, this was an excellent and easy read. Gave some brief bio's of the people involved, layed out the events, and appears to have been sourced with everyone involved. Made for an interesting and balanced read.
Still suspect Ackman is right and it is (was?) a scam, but I tend to feel that way even about non-illegal MLMs.
I'd still like the see the movie Betting on Zero, but in the meanwhile, this was an excellent and easy read. Gave some brief bio's of the people involved, layed out the events, and appears to have been sourced with everyone involved. Made for an interesting and balanced read.
Still suspect Ackman is right and it is (was?) a scam, but I tend to feel that way even about non-illegal MLMs.
August 7, 2021
I’d add the fifth star if either the technical aspects had been delved into a bit deeper, or if it had ended with a bigger bang.
Who really won, who really lost?
Kinda the same old story, a bunch of rich guys stayed rich while playing a huge game of ego with a bunch of money invested by slightly less rich people.
Meh.
No special takeaways here you couldn’t absorb via a few news articles and blog posts on this battle.
Who really won, who really lost?
Kinda the same old story, a bunch of rich guys stayed rich while playing a huge game of ego with a bunch of money invested by slightly less rich people.
Meh.
No special takeaways here you couldn’t absorb via a few news articles and blog posts on this battle.
August 22, 2022
If the book were only about the Herbalife saga and the clash between Bill Ackman and (among others) Carl Icahn, it would have still been an automatic buy recommendation. The details, the main story, the narrative, all served for a good read. And as a bonus, it even went into Ackman's other famous trades, notably Valeant (which per Wikipedia is currently the tenth biggest trading loss of all time). A two-for-one, I can give this six stars for the book's value.
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