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Dream of the Red Chamber
For more than a century and a half, Dream of the Red Chamber has been recognized in China as the greatest of its novels, a Chinese Romeo-and-Juliet love story and a portrait of one of the world's great civilizations. Chi-chen Wang's translation is skillful and accurate.
329 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1791
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About the author
Cao Xueqin
793 books241 followersXueqin Cao (Chinese: 曹雪芹; pinyin: Cáo Xuěqín; Wade–Giles: Ts'ao Hsueh-ch'in, 1715 or 1724 — 1763 or 1764) was the pseudonym of a Qing Dynasty Chinese writer, best known as the author of Dream of the Red Chamber, one of the Four Great Classical Novels of Chinese literature.
It has been suggested that his given name was Zhan Cao (曹霑) and his courtesy name is Mengruan (夢阮; 梦阮; literally "Dream about Ruan" or "Dream of Ruan")[...]
It has been suggested that his given name was Zhan Cao (曹霑) and his courtesy name is Mengruan (夢阮; 梦阮; literally "Dream about Ruan" or "Dream of Ruan")[...]
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 265 reviews
July 8, 2014
I hate this book, and I'm Chinese.
Ok, hate is a strong word. I'm repulsed by this book which I viewed as close to godliness in my childhood. I hate 'em little balls of prudishness.
Sorry about this, translator(s), because I think you did a nice job on this book and I'm still giving you two stars. If I rated on your technicality alone I would give you a solid 3 or 4. I do like the English version in some ways better than the Chinese version(s) because it's so much more 'normal' for lack of a better word. I felt that the prose style of the original was awkward and it somehow feels less distorted in the English version to a degree. This is because Xueqin used vernacular Chinese in composing his proses. Vernacular is straightforward, easily comprehensible, brash, raw, characteristic, and should remind me somewhat warmly of my Chinese neighbours.
But Xueqin changed it all. He wrote in vernacular but all of his characters dialogues were so highly organized, so refined, so grammatically correct, it simply feels artificial as if he made several rough drafts of one conversation before inserting them into the characters' mouths. He 'eleganized' the beautiful, spontaneous street talk of vernacular. I hated that. It's like somebody decided to Shakespearize Dickens.
English feels much more normal for some reason, bringing forthwith more unconscious magnitude in the dialogue. Then again, English also concealed the brilliancy of the original proses and descriptions, so there are wins and losses.
Next, I have a problem with the central themes, which cannot be changed with translation. Due to its uncertainty of themes, the book can be read as a surreal, poetic metaphor or a realistic piece of fiction. But when you actually think about it, the plot boils down to this: rich noble bastards party hard. Party crashes. Go home.
And it talks about this for roughly 80 chapters before we lose the original manuscript and read the flawed 40 chapters. This unfinished-ness added to the 'mysticism' surrounding the book and is a major topic still in modern Redology. Then this book is hailed as the height of Chinese literature.
Dot dot dot.
To be honest, the plot was good. It still is good. The ideas and philosophies are not. It stereotypes men and women to a huge degree with its kind of reversal sexism appeal. I especially had a problem with the author's 'ranking' of women in the 5th chapter (even if it is meant simply as a way of introducing dramatis personae, you can't ignore that Jing Huan Goddess proclaimed it herself that only the BEST women are recorded and the rest of the COMMON, VULGAR women are not. Who the hell does she or the author think they are?!). For some reason some see the book as a novel of feminism while it had minimum impact on the Chinese feminist movement. For another, they see it as a hidden way of expressing political satire. In this case take the book off the classics shelf now, why should we waste time on an author who doesn't even want to sit down and write a proper story? Another proclaim the book is mainly emphasizing the Buddhism idea of 'Kong Huan' in that everything, even the most beautiful, eventually amounts to nothing. The author does a bad job of this if that is the case, because his sadness, his losses and his flames are quite trivial and does not match up to the greater kindness and understanding of Buddhism. As I was reading it through in the future, I couldn't help but feel as if the author is writing these 80 chapters feeling narcissist-ly sorry for himself. There are a lot of unparalleled stories in the book, though, that outmatch the author's contemporaries. Unfortunately not every story is of equal quality, especially when you see how narrow the book's world really is. It's constraining to see these young people shut up in a false paradise wasting their lives away. Worst of all the author seems to take enjoyment in it too alongside his forgotten sadness. He beautified aspects of life that one would feel uncomfortable with--for example it's okay for young girls to throw temper tantrums because she's young & beautiful, but apparently it's not okay for old women to throw tantrums because they're "inferior" to younger virgin girls. Whut. He also did not really show the intensity of corruptive activities in the families.
Last of all comes the poetry. The poetry is greatly emphasized in this novel, but upon reading it, it becomes clear that Qing dynasty poems were on the decline. The poems in the novel are most elegantly and skillfully composed. Yet they lack creativity, originality, and sophistication. The poems are mainly concerning either of the emptiness of human life or mourning about the, again, most trivial things, such as flowers, plants, people etc. The grandeur, mysticism of Tang, Spring and Autumn and Three Kingdoms era poets are sadly failing in the hands of Qing poets, and only begins to revive a little within chapter 78 in which Bao Yu composes a Song and a mournful Rhapsody, which were the loveliest to read. Well, the author can't really make the poems great considering they come out of the hands of adolescents, and the poems are the best parts of the book, the main reason why I go back to read it today.
Overall, technically speaking, this book is not bad standing alone. Yet it has achieved nearly national veneration in Chinese lit and I'm not quite sure if it should be. In terms of surreal and romantic aestheticism it does not match up to Genji (Japanese, but earlier than this book by 700 years! If Murasaki can do it why not Xueqin?), in terms of realism and plotting wobbles before Plum of the Golden Vase, in terms of philosophy and mysticism, I think loses to Journey to the West, 100 Strange Stories, the Carnal Prayer Mat, and Tale of Scholars, at the top of my head. The book's surpassing virtue is its delicate poetry, sense of dreaminess and scattered cryptic messages which no one will ever be able to sort. Nevertheless one does admire his strength of weaving stories, and feels sorry that they could not read the completed work, but it is not the best.
Ok, hate is a strong word. I'm repulsed by this book which I viewed as close to godliness in my childhood. I hate 'em little balls of prudishness.
Sorry about this, translator(s), because I think you did a nice job on this book and I'm still giving you two stars. If I rated on your technicality alone I would give you a solid 3 or 4. I do like the English version in some ways better than the Chinese version(s) because it's so much more 'normal' for lack of a better word. I felt that the prose style of the original was awkward and it somehow feels less distorted in the English version to a degree. This is because Xueqin used vernacular Chinese in composing his proses. Vernacular is straightforward, easily comprehensible, brash, raw, characteristic, and should remind me somewhat warmly of my Chinese neighbours.
But Xueqin changed it all. He wrote in vernacular but all of his characters dialogues were so highly organized, so refined, so grammatically correct, it simply feels artificial as if he made several rough drafts of one conversation before inserting them into the characters' mouths. He 'eleganized' the beautiful, spontaneous street talk of vernacular. I hated that. It's like somebody decided to Shakespearize Dickens.
English feels much more normal for some reason, bringing forthwith more unconscious magnitude in the dialogue. Then again, English also concealed the brilliancy of the original proses and descriptions, so there are wins and losses.
Next, I have a problem with the central themes, which cannot be changed with translation. Due to its uncertainty of themes, the book can be read as a surreal, poetic metaphor or a realistic piece of fiction. But when you actually think about it, the plot boils down to this: rich noble bastards party hard. Party crashes. Go home.
And it talks about this for roughly 80 chapters before we lose the original manuscript and read the flawed 40 chapters. This unfinished-ness added to the 'mysticism' surrounding the book and is a major topic still in modern Redology. Then this book is hailed as the height of Chinese literature.
Dot dot dot.
To be honest, the plot was good. It still is good. The ideas and philosophies are not. It stereotypes men and women to a huge degree with its kind of reversal sexism appeal. I especially had a problem with the author's 'ranking' of women in the 5th chapter (even if it is meant simply as a way of introducing dramatis personae, you can't ignore that Jing Huan Goddess proclaimed it herself that only the BEST women are recorded and the rest of the COMMON, VULGAR women are not. Who the hell does she or the author think they are?!). For some reason some see the book as a novel of feminism while it had minimum impact on the Chinese feminist movement. For another, they see it as a hidden way of expressing political satire. In this case take the book off the classics shelf now, why should we waste time on an author who doesn't even want to sit down and write a proper story? Another proclaim the book is mainly emphasizing the Buddhism idea of 'Kong Huan' in that everything, even the most beautiful, eventually amounts to nothing. The author does a bad job of this if that is the case, because his sadness, his losses and his flames are quite trivial and does not match up to the greater kindness and understanding of Buddhism. As I was reading it through in the future, I couldn't help but feel as if the author is writing these 80 chapters feeling narcissist-ly sorry for himself. There are a lot of unparalleled stories in the book, though, that outmatch the author's contemporaries. Unfortunately not every story is of equal quality, especially when you see how narrow the book's world really is. It's constraining to see these young people shut up in a false paradise wasting their lives away. Worst of all the author seems to take enjoyment in it too alongside his forgotten sadness. He beautified aspects of life that one would feel uncomfortable with--for example it's okay for young girls to throw temper tantrums because she's young & beautiful, but apparently it's not okay for old women to throw tantrums because they're "inferior" to younger virgin girls. Whut. He also did not really show the intensity of corruptive activities in the families.
Last of all comes the poetry. The poetry is greatly emphasized in this novel, but upon reading it, it becomes clear that Qing dynasty poems were on the decline. The poems in the novel are most elegantly and skillfully composed. Yet they lack creativity, originality, and sophistication. The poems are mainly concerning either of the emptiness of human life or mourning about the, again, most trivial things, such as flowers, plants, people etc. The grandeur, mysticism of Tang, Spring and Autumn and Three Kingdoms era poets are sadly failing in the hands of Qing poets, and only begins to revive a little within chapter 78 in which Bao Yu composes a Song and a mournful Rhapsody, which were the loveliest to read. Well, the author can't really make the poems great considering they come out of the hands of adolescents, and the poems are the best parts of the book, the main reason why I go back to read it today.
Overall, technically speaking, this book is not bad standing alone. Yet it has achieved nearly national veneration in Chinese lit and I'm not quite sure if it should be. In terms of surreal and romantic aestheticism it does not match up to Genji (Japanese, but earlier than this book by 700 years! If Murasaki can do it why not Xueqin?), in terms of realism and plotting wobbles before Plum of the Golden Vase, in terms of philosophy and mysticism, I think loses to Journey to the West, 100 Strange Stories, the Carnal Prayer Mat, and Tale of Scholars, at the top of my head. The book's surpassing virtue is its delicate poetry, sense of dreaminess and scattered cryptic messages which no one will ever be able to sort. Nevertheless one does admire his strength of weaving stories, and feels sorry that they could not read the completed work, but it is not the best.
November 27, 2016
Excellent 'Starter' Dream of the Red Chamber/Story of the Stone (two names for the same work).
This is an abridged English version of an amazing Chinese novel called Dream of the Red Chamber or Story of the Stone. I would recommend reading this if you would like to know the general story, which you should, as it is one of the most important novels in history. This book is HUGE in China- it is considered, along with one or two other works, the pinnacle of Chinese literature. And it is much more nuanced than the 'Romeo and Juliet' story it is sold as. The story is more of the downfall of a great house and how it affects the young men and women living there. It is remarkable in that it is so much about women at a time when women's lives were considered unimportant. It is also defies Confucian mores in several ways, though adheres to them in others. Most points of the author's biography are unknown but it is thought that he belonged to a wealthy family that, much like the family in the book, came down in the world. The book was completed by someone else.
It is also a good 'starter' version if you are interested in testing it before you delve into the much longer unabridged version. Which really, you must read. After reading this, I read the David Hawkes translation (5 volumes)which I highly recommend.
Edit: I just wanted to add that the main reason I recommend this book as a starter is that it gave me in many places the same emotional 'punch' as the original, which I think it a remarkable achievement considering how greatly it has been condensed.
This is an abridged English version of an amazing Chinese novel called Dream of the Red Chamber or Story of the Stone. I would recommend reading this if you would like to know the general story, which you should, as it is one of the most important novels in history. This book is HUGE in China- it is considered, along with one or two other works, the pinnacle of Chinese literature. And it is much more nuanced than the 'Romeo and Juliet' story it is sold as. The story is more of the downfall of a great house and how it affects the young men and women living there. It is remarkable in that it is so much about women at a time when women's lives were considered unimportant. It is also defies Confucian mores in several ways, though adheres to them in others. Most points of the author's biography are unknown but it is thought that he belonged to a wealthy family that, much like the family in the book, came down in the world. The book was completed by someone else.
It is also a good 'starter' version if you are interested in testing it before you delve into the much longer unabridged version. Which really, you must read. After reading this, I read the David Hawkes translation (5 volumes)which I highly recommend.
Edit: I just wanted to add that the main reason I recommend this book as a starter is that it gave me in many places the same emotional 'punch' as the original, which I think it a remarkable achievement considering how greatly it has been condensed.
February 27, 2012
I just re-read this classic of Chinese literature as it's been years since I first read it. The Dream of the Red Chamber/Story of the Stone is unlike any work in the Western canon yet it fits into the Western tradition of great literature in a way few other examples of classic Chinese writing are able to, offering an engrossive narrative and a real feel for both character and place. There are aspects of this novel that may confuse the modern reader of it in English translation: the many titles and nicknames used for various characters, the cuts and transitions that are in places unlike Western narrative, and a wealth of Chinese traditions, manners, and morals that will due to their exoticism and antiquity alike will confound a reader not already aware of Qing Dynansty history and culture. That said, this book is as influential to Chinese culture as Dickens or Austen are to British culture and in movies, pop music, and certainly contemporary Chinese literature you'll still encounter references to Dream of the Red Chamber.
The plot of the novel follows the lives of the Rongguo House and the Ningguo House of the noble and wealthy Jia clan and thus the drama and intrigue visited on these powerful families. Much of the emphasis is on plans to marry a son or daughter off to someone or who has the power in a certain household. If you enjoy Jane Austen, after getting over the cultural differnces and obscure way the story is told—magic factors in a great deal and sometimes it's hard to pin down what is metaphorical and what is supposed to be actual—you'll probably enjoy this book. In saying that, I do not mean to scare away readers nor to cite the cultural and historical differences as a problem or marker of something "less-than"or abnormal, but it must be understood that due to the specifics of the Qing Dynasty plus various editions of the novel and additions by various authors and editors, the book's study has become so complex and nuanced that there is even a name for the academic field of investigation of this one novel: Redology. No joke. In example, a work mentioned in the book Fei Yi Ji Ji Gao, a work within a work, has even been studied in detail and the jury of scholars is still out on the origins and authenticity of this work!
All that said, this is a powerful, sweeping, epic and utterly engrossing book and it stands in my opinion as probably one of the top ten—possibly even top five—works of world literature ever written. Why only four stars then? This translation, and all translations I've read or examined appear to have their faults and be overall pretty cumbersome. I realize that translators and editors of a work this complex have their tasks cut out for them and I don't want to see anything done that would mitigate the true flavor of the original yet what seems to happen is that the language winds up somewhere between a faithful replication of the Chinese and something seeming like a bad script-writer trying to write dialog as people would have spoken in "Bible days". In places, the novel even seems like a parody of itself. If you thought the dialog in The Good Earth seemed fake and even comical with all the "ah, my pretty lotus flower!" platitudes, this book will make you want to tear your hair out. If you can get past that, it's a treat.
The plot of the novel follows the lives of the Rongguo House and the Ningguo House of the noble and wealthy Jia clan and thus the drama and intrigue visited on these powerful families. Much of the emphasis is on plans to marry a son or daughter off to someone or who has the power in a certain household. If you enjoy Jane Austen, after getting over the cultural differnces and obscure way the story is told—magic factors in a great deal and sometimes it's hard to pin down what is metaphorical and what is supposed to be actual—you'll probably enjoy this book. In saying that, I do not mean to scare away readers nor to cite the cultural and historical differences as a problem or marker of something "less-than"or abnormal, but it must be understood that due to the specifics of the Qing Dynasty plus various editions of the novel and additions by various authors and editors, the book's study has become so complex and nuanced that there is even a name for the academic field of investigation of this one novel: Redology. No joke. In example, a work mentioned in the book Fei Yi Ji Ji Gao, a work within a work, has even been studied in detail and the jury of scholars is still out on the origins and authenticity of this work!
All that said, this is a powerful, sweeping, epic and utterly engrossing book and it stands in my opinion as probably one of the top ten—possibly even top five—works of world literature ever written. Why only four stars then? This translation, and all translations I've read or examined appear to have their faults and be overall pretty cumbersome. I realize that translators and editors of a work this complex have their tasks cut out for them and I don't want to see anything done that would mitigate the true flavor of the original yet what seems to happen is that the language winds up somewhere between a faithful replication of the Chinese and something seeming like a bad script-writer trying to write dialog as people would have spoken in "Bible days". In places, the novel even seems like a parody of itself. If you thought the dialog in The Good Earth seemed fake and even comical with all the "ah, my pretty lotus flower!" platitudes, this book will make you want to tear your hair out. If you can get past that, it's a treat.
February 21, 2016
Guardian article
Read the novel here Hattip to Wandaful
Opening: Chen Shih-yin, in a vision, apprehends perception and spirituality — Chia Yü-ts’un, in the (windy and dusty) world, cherishes fond thoughts of a beautiful maiden.
This is the opening section; this the first chapter. Subsequent to the visions of a dream which he had, on some previous occasion, experienced, the writer personally relates, he designedly concealed the true circumstances, and borrowed the attributes of perception and spirituality to relate this story of the Record of the Stone. With this purpose, he made use of such designations as Chen Shih-yin (truth under the garb of fiction) and the like. What are, however, the events recorded in this work? Who are the dramatis personae?
A stone hurled by an Empress feels neglected, desolate and unfit...The Empress Nü Wo, (the goddess of works,) in fashioning blocks of stones, for the repair of the heavens, prepared, at the Ta Huang Hills and Wu Ch’i cave, 36,501 blocks of rough stone, each twelve chang in height, and twenty-four chang square. Of these stones, the Empress Wo only used 36,500; so that one single block remained over and above, without being turned to any account. This was cast down the Ch’ing Keng peak."
So how long is a chang so that we can picture this thing? Answer: 3.58 metres or 11 feet 9 inches Ta-dah! Yet that is only half the story, this heavenly stone can expand or contract - become the apex of a mountain or lay in the palm of a curious hand.
What fun! Not like Pauline Collins talking to 'rock' in Shirley Valentine*, this rock talks back.
* Damn! couldn't find that clip of her talking to 'rock' yet did find this bit, which is smashing
November 13, 2014
The Story of the Stone is one of the "Four Classic Chinese Novels." The value to the Western reader is that it provides great insight into the daily lives and culture of the Chinese Nobility in the 18th Century.
The problem for the Western reader is trying to figure out what to mark the Story of the Stone against. The first three volumes seem to be a Proustian tribute to a golden age of poetry experienced by the Wang-Jias a prominent clan of nobles who all live together in a huge compound. Volume four is Hubris as the family cut off from the world commit steadily more wicked and cruel actions leaving the floor strewn with the corpses of bullied servants, beaten concubines and innocent commoners. Volume Five starts out as Nemesis. Justice strikes. The bureaucracy discovers that two members of the family are guilty of fraud and lone-sharking. The police raid the Wang-Jia compound and confiscate most of the valuables they can find. Edicts then strip them of their estates.
The Wang-Jias seem to be at the nadir of their fortunes like Job when a mysterious monk arrives. He explains to the family that one son Bao-Yu is the reincarnation of a Buddha immortal. With the monk's help Bao You recovers the family properties, fathers a son and then returns to the afterlife.
The phantom-monk then warns the Wang-Jias that they lost everything through wickedness and that they would never fully recover what they had lost unless they practiced virtue. Finally the phantom-monk explains to them that the physical world is not real. Only the spirit world is real.
Do your homework before launching into this massive work.
The problem for the Western reader is trying to figure out what to mark the Story of the Stone against. The first three volumes seem to be a Proustian tribute to a golden age of poetry experienced by the Wang-Jias a prominent clan of nobles who all live together in a huge compound. Volume four is Hubris as the family cut off from the world commit steadily more wicked and cruel actions leaving the floor strewn with the corpses of bullied servants, beaten concubines and innocent commoners. Volume Five starts out as Nemesis. Justice strikes. The bureaucracy discovers that two members of the family are guilty of fraud and lone-sharking. The police raid the Wang-Jia compound and confiscate most of the valuables they can find. Edicts then strip them of their estates.
The Wang-Jias seem to be at the nadir of their fortunes like Job when a mysterious monk arrives. He explains to the family that one son Bao-Yu is the reincarnation of a Buddha immortal. With the monk's help Bao You recovers the family properties, fathers a son and then returns to the afterlife.
The phantom-monk then warns the Wang-Jias that they lost everything through wickedness and that they would never fully recover what they had lost unless they practiced virtue. Finally the phantom-monk explains to them that the physical world is not real. Only the spirit world is real.
Do your homework before launching into this massive work.
Want to read
December 5, 2019Zad says don't read the abridged version by Wang, it's jibberish, but you know what Zad life is short. There's also a super-shortened one (96 pages!) by Hawkes for Penguin, ISBN 0146001761. Don't judge me. (no, go ahead and judge me, you might as well.)
February 27, 2014
After the success of Shi Nai An "Au bord de l'eau", it was the second Chinese novel to enter in the "Pléiade" collection. I was a little surprised. This is more the picaresque novel.It is almost a novel XIX° the rise and fall of the Jia House.
And there are also Romeo and Juliette. The rhythm is slow, one needs to accept it. I had evil to locate me geographically. I visited in China a long time after its reading the house of the merchant Wang who was the decor of "Wives and concubines."
I then understood how this closed world functioned, all seemingly. The novel appeared to me much more clearly.
It is necessary that I read again this book because I have the impression to be last with dimensions.
And there are also Romeo and Juliette. The rhythm is slow, one needs to accept it. I had evil to locate me geographically. I visited in China a long time after its reading the house of the merchant Wang who was the decor of "Wives and concubines."
I then understood how this closed world functioned, all seemingly. The novel appeared to me much more clearly.
It is necessary that I read again this book because I have the impression to be last with dimensions.
November 5, 2013
Like a historical record, the novel vividly portraits forgotten customs as well as enduring intrigues of a wealthy but declining aristocratic family in the Qing dynasty, detailing sumptuous delicacies, colorful cotton-padded jackets, and the luxurious chambers’ wooden stools, chamber pots, woven screens and bedside heaters. To turn the pages of Dream of the Red Chamber is to relive the decaying luxury of a lost time.
A Chinese Brush Painting of an Aristocratic Mansion
A Chinese Brush Painting of an Aristocratic Mansion
August 21, 2012
This was like an 18th century Chinese Downton Abbey.
September 1, 2010
I have spent 9 years trying to remember what "that Chinese book" was which I read within my first year of college. I cannot remember if I read it for extra credit in my Chinese class, or if one of my professors recommended it as a Chinese classic that I should consider reading. Part of me thinks I began it during the school year, and then part of it the following summer (when I was reading so much I can't remember all that I read). Either way, I finally did some research and this is definitely the book. Because of the few things I remember from it, I definitely remember the main character being born with a piece of jade in his mouth.
Other things I remember:
-I plowed through this book, determined to read it in spite of my inability to really connect with it.
-Throughout most of it, I couldn't help thinking "soap opera!"
-I was often confused by who was who, and how everyone was connected.
-I was intrigued to see what would happen, even if I was not enjoying the actual story itself.
-I don't know if I finished it.
Isn't that awful? I'm pretty sure I did, because of how determined I was to finish. But I can't remember the end. Something is telling me that the female character we most wanted to NOT die, DID die. But then, isn't that very Chinese anyhow?
I'm sure my take on this book would be different many years and Chinese classes later. But I don't know if I want to go through those 5 volumes again.
Other things I remember:
-I plowed through this book, determined to read it in spite of my inability to really connect with it.
-Throughout most of it, I couldn't help thinking "soap opera!"
-I was often confused by who was who, and how everyone was connected.
-I was intrigued to see what would happen, even if I was not enjoying the actual story itself.
-I don't know if I finished it.
Isn't that awful? I'm pretty sure I did, because of how determined I was to finish. But I can't remember the end. Something is telling me that the female character we most wanted to NOT die, DID die. But then, isn't that very Chinese anyhow?
I'm sure my take on this book would be different many years and Chinese classes later. But I don't know if I want to go through those 5 volumes again.
October 30, 2007
I can only just begin to grasp the importance, the amazing contribution to Chinese (and world!) literature that this story brought about. Quite a challenging read--even with some schooling in Chinese culture, I found myself stumbling, reviewing and contacting my professor to make sure I caught all the nuances, that I understood all the honorific titles (the family tree chart in the intro is most helpful!) However, it was absolutely worth it as this is a stirring and gorgeous tour-de-force! Even this abridged version (the original is increcibly long!) was quite complex and lyrical. A truly worthwhile story in and of itself, but especially recommended for those interested in expanding their horizons beyond Western literature and seeking to gain a greater appreciation for other cultures. An amazing, heartfelt study of how our cultures may be so different, yet our human-ness is universal.
May 2, 2012
A good introduction to the novel. I was first introduced to this version via a World Lit class at the University of North Carolina--Wilmington. It had such a deep effect on me that I re-read it several times and eventually read the five volume version numerous times. I would say that the five-volume translation has become probably my favorite of all-time, perhaps, next to Brave New World. It has all the genius of the Romantic-era novels of manners, e.g. Pride and Prejudice set against a background of Taoism, Confucianism, Zen, and other types of Buddhism. It also touches on traditional Chinese medicine. I can't recommend this novel enough. The only reason I don't give this five stars is because you really must read the whole translation.
October 19, 2021
I own this book, which is part of my obsession with the 18th-century Chinese novel of manners Dream of the Red Chamber--in its original, surely one of the world's greatest novels? This abridged translation is by Chi-Chen Wang, a former professor of Columbia University. His translation is skilful and readable, although highly abridged--at 60 chapters, about one-quarter to one-fifth the length of the original.
The Hawkes translation still remains my primary recommendation for anyone wishing to immerse himself in this vast, encyclopedic novel. However, this makes a fine "starter kit" for anyone wishing to familiarize him- or herself with Dream. Note that many episodes are given in paraphrase and this version focuses on the novel's principal plotline (the love triangle between Baoyu, Daiyu and Baochai). It also includes a passage in the frame story from the Jiaxu manuscript, missing in the Hawkes translation--a somewhat crucial (and to my mind doubtlessly authentic) restoration of about 1 manuscript page, distinguishing the Stone from the Divine Luminescent Stone-in-Waiting (an important distinction if you want to make sense of the Stone's many asides.)
Update: Seems like this Anchor version is an abridgement of the 1958 Chi-Chen Wang (already abridged) version. The version I have is published by Graham Brash, no longer in print, at 574 pages. The Anchor edition is a mere 329 pages. If you don't mind having a drastically abridged version, it might suffice. But I still recommend reading the novel in David Hawkes's complete translation.
The Hawkes translation still remains my primary recommendation for anyone wishing to immerse himself in this vast, encyclopedic novel. However, this makes a fine "starter kit" for anyone wishing to familiarize him- or herself with Dream. Note that many episodes are given in paraphrase and this version focuses on the novel's principal plotline (the love triangle between Baoyu, Daiyu and Baochai). It also includes a passage in the frame story from the Jiaxu manuscript, missing in the Hawkes translation--a somewhat crucial (and to my mind doubtlessly authentic) restoration of about 1 manuscript page, distinguishing the Stone from the Divine Luminescent Stone-in-Waiting (an important distinction if you want to make sense of the Stone's many asides.)
Update: Seems like this Anchor version is an abridgement of the 1958 Chi-Chen Wang (already abridged) version. The version I have is published by Graham Brash, no longer in print, at 574 pages. The Anchor edition is a mere 329 pages. If you don't mind having a drastically abridged version, it might suffice. But I still recommend reading the novel in David Hawkes's complete translation.
December 7, 2025
this novel is very Chinese. the failboss scion of an iron-cap prince confucian literati. he reads theatre dramas instead of the wujing like a good son. women are made of water, men of mud. honestly not interested in racking my brain to somehow compose all my thoughts, but i will make one point: Chinese men are very stupid. my family, like the jia family, is no exception, of course. this family does conservatism the best. all the Chinese men i know from other families too are the cleverest people i've ever met, and very, so very stupid, and most of them end up becoming pseudo-functionaries. i love Chinese men. they are the best kind of men..
March 28, 2022
This is the third out of the Four Chinese Classics that I've read. Although I have enjoyed this one more than Three Kingdoms: A Historical Novel, Complete and Unabridged, Part One and Monkey: The Journey to the West, however, it wasn't mind-blowing or fascinating. Maybe the English translation just simply doesn't do its Chinese counterpart any justice.
This book has a lot of characters. To put it really simple, the aristocratic family is obsessed with its maids. The main character Pao yu is involved in a love triangle, which ends badly. I don't understand how at the beginning, the story of the old man, whose daughter got kidnapped and propelled him to become a monk, is connected to the rest of the story. Maybe because I had difficulty keeping up with the characters and they were written not in Pin yin but in Romanization. I will take a break of Chinese classics.
This book has a lot of characters. To put it really simple, the aristocratic family is obsessed with its maids. The main character Pao yu is involved in a love triangle, which ends badly. I don't understand how at the beginning, the story of the old man, whose daughter got kidnapped and propelled him to become a monk, is connected to the rest of the story. Maybe because I had difficulty keeping up with the characters and they were written not in Pin yin but in Romanization. I will take a break of Chinese classics.
April 13, 2013
Overall, this book--one of the four Chinese Classic Novels--was a marvelous read, although its intricacy cannot be overstated. Some compare it to Shakespeare, but it's more like a saga with little Shakespearean offshoots every few chapters. The cast of characters is enormous, and the overarching narrative truly does transcend space and time.
My primary complaint about this book--a long, complex, elegant Chinese drama--is that it needs a better guide to the characters. There is a genealogy chart in the front, but it is incomplete, and there are so many distant relatives, recurrent unrelated characters, and servants not mentioned in the genealogy, that a list of dramatis personae (in addition to a thorough and complete genealogy chart) would have been very helpful.
A glossary would also have been handy. Chinese terms and honorifics are usually explained when they first appear, but if I needed to double-check what a term meant, I had to find the page where it first appeared to do so. A glossary would have solved that problem. (Of course, knowing some basic Mandarin would have been even better, but unfortunately I lack that skill set.)
My primary complaint about this book--a long, complex, elegant Chinese drama--is that it needs a better guide to the characters. There is a genealogy chart in the front, but it is incomplete, and there are so many distant relatives, recurrent unrelated characters, and servants not mentioned in the genealogy, that a list of dramatis personae (in addition to a thorough and complete genealogy chart) would have been very helpful.
A glossary would also have been handy. Chinese terms and honorifics are usually explained when they first appear, but if I needed to double-check what a term meant, I had to find the page where it first appeared to do so. A glossary would have solved that problem. (Of course, knowing some basic Mandarin would have been even better, but unfortunately I lack that skill set.)
February 8, 2020
Halfway through the novel, I did not even know that the main leads had become lovers. So many characters, so little focus on the main leads, especially Black Jade. I'm not sure if it's because the book has the stories from the five (?) volumes all in one, but I always felt like I was missing out on some event or the other. The ending certainly felt rushed, with so many characters not having a satisfactory ending. I would have loved it if we got to know how Pao Yu felt about his experience in the Red Dust. For me, the end was not as good as the start. I thought we would continue reading about their everyday events, when suddenly every character started meeting their end... I had no idea what was happening in the last few chapters. The author might have thought of giving the characters some kind of closure, but why did they have to kill them to do so? That is something I have not been able to fathom.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
October 9, 2009
This is one of the masterworks of Chinese literature. The story, closely modeled on the author's life, narrates the decline of a noble family. Buddenbrooks, in a way, but in 18th century China. The novel is framed by the musings of two travelling monks, one Buddhist and the other Taoist, who find the stone, which turns into the hero. The device heightens the tragedy, and makes it both universal and an emblem of the eventual fading of all existence.
October 13, 2013
Translated and abridged by Chi-Chen Wang
This is a 330-page adaptation of the 18th century Chinese novel about fate, mysticism, doomed romance and the fortunes of an aristocratic family. It's fascinating reading for its details about Chinese family values, social hierarchy, interfamily relationships and customs. At times, the various titles and honorifics used were confusing; at one point in the text, the author says that a group of related characters who lived together in a garden house themselves frequently addressed each other by the wrong title, forgetting who was older than whom. The adaptation/abridgment was capable (there weren't great gaps in the story), although the rapid deaths of many characters one after the other was disconcerting. Asian fatalism comes through in the ending, which is not a traditionally happy one, nor is it excessively moralistic. Some characters die who deserve it, some don't; some bad things go punished, some good deeds go rewarded – and some don't. A true slice of life novel.
This is a 330-page adaptation of the 18th century Chinese novel about fate, mysticism, doomed romance and the fortunes of an aristocratic family. It's fascinating reading for its details about Chinese family values, social hierarchy, interfamily relationships and customs. At times, the various titles and honorifics used were confusing; at one point in the text, the author says that a group of related characters who lived together in a garden house themselves frequently addressed each other by the wrong title, forgetting who was older than whom. The adaptation/abridgment was capable (there weren't great gaps in the story), although the rapid deaths of many characters one after the other was disconcerting. Asian fatalism comes through in the ending, which is not a traditionally happy one, nor is it excessively moralistic. Some characters die who deserve it, some don't; some bad things go punished, some good deeds go rewarded – and some don't. A true slice of life novel.
January 3, 2013
Arguably THE most important work in traditional Chinese literature. Written in the 1780s and then compiled and edited about 100 years later, this is not a seamless novel, but more like a soap opera of a courtly family's life in decline. This edition is obviously not the entire work, but a good representation of the most famous scenes.
A lot of times you'll see scrolls or paintings with scenes from Dream of the Read Chamber (also known as Story of the Stone) that have 4 or 5 of the most famous scenes, like when Black Jade buries the flower petals rather than let them be swept to outside the compound by the river.
The framework of this story is kind of odd in that a stone tells a Buddhist monk and a Taoist priest that he wants to be reborn in the Red Dust (a Buddhist term for the earth/suffering/samsara), and he is as a boy named Bao Yu (Precious Jade). This entire story is written down on the stone, which the monk and the priest copy out, and which the author edits.
Like some Russian lit, the hardest part is keeping everyone names straight. It gets easier as you go along.
A lot of times you'll see scrolls or paintings with scenes from Dream of the Read Chamber (also known as Story of the Stone) that have 4 or 5 of the most famous scenes, like when Black Jade buries the flower petals rather than let them be swept to outside the compound by the river.
The framework of this story is kind of odd in that a stone tells a Buddhist monk and a Taoist priest that he wants to be reborn in the Red Dust (a Buddhist term for the earth/suffering/samsara), and he is as a boy named Bao Yu (Precious Jade). This entire story is written down on the stone, which the monk and the priest copy out, and which the author edits.
Like some Russian lit, the hardest part is keeping everyone names straight. It gets easier as you go along.
May 6, 2008
I borrowed a copy of this book from a dusty stack of forgotten books in the back closet of the English department in my high school, where it had been discarded by teachers who were tired of students mispronouncing Chinese names and becoming bored by cultural traits unfamiliar to them. For fun, I read it over the summer, and where I did struggle to keep track of which character was which, at first, by the halfway point, I was sucked in completely to the story.
It's a tale with no real beginning and no real end, yes the names all look the same to the unindoctrinated, but it is such a delightful read, so sad and so thought-provoking, I feel that anyone and everyone should at least give it a chance.
Including teachers. Come on, now. Broaden your students' horizons!
It's a tale with no real beginning and no real end, yes the names all look the same to the unindoctrinated, but it is such a delightful read, so sad and so thought-provoking, I feel that anyone and everyone should at least give it a chance.
Including teachers. Come on, now. Broaden your students' horizons!
January 16, 2015
I first read this epic Chinese novel when I was about 13, and I remember being swept away into an entirely unknown and unimagined (by me) world. I knew it was wonderful: I didn't know it was one of the most enduring pieces of Chinese literature to date. Written in the late 1700s, it is still read and influencing writers. I reread it, and loved it again. I can see that not everyone would enjoy the cultural intricacies and minutely rendered settings. I could compare it to a twelve part Masterpiece Theatre drama: you gradually learn about the time period and the multitude of characters who bring that time to life. I agree with the reviewer who said it explored the mannered world of a Chinese dynasty in the way Austen explored the English country gentry of her time.
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February 17, 2016Free download available at ebooks@Adelaide.
The Chinese novel Honglou meng (红楼梦, also known as The Dream of the Red Chamber and as The Story of the Stone, 石頭記) is one of the great masterpieces of Chinese fiction.
As riveting as any soap opera, it can also be read as a study of 18th century Chinese manners, or as a Buddhist allegory. It is a large work. The first 80 chapters were written by Cao Xueqin 曹雪芹 and the remaining 40 chapters attributed to a Gao E who published the combined version in 1792.
The Chinese novel Honglou meng (红楼梦, also known as The Dream of the Red Chamber and as The Story of the Stone, 石頭記) is one of the great masterpieces of Chinese fiction.
As riveting as any soap opera, it can also be read as a study of 18th century Chinese manners, or as a Buddhist allegory. It is a large work. The first 80 chapters were written by Cao Xueqin 曹雪芹 and the remaining 40 chapters attributed to a Gao E who published the combined version in 1792.
September 10, 2018
So I read this because I heard somewhere that is the quintessential Chinese classic novel. So from that POV I’m glad I read it. And sometimes I thought I’d give it 4 stars. Then I’d hit long portions of nothingness and drag myself through it and fight to finish it and not rate it 2. When an event did occur it was enjoyable. There was just so much downtime between them.
June 27, 2023
A classic and a glimpse into China’s past and family/economic politics. Themes of family bonds and obligation, greed, honor, and fate. I especially loved Phoenix! I was surprised by how the author portrays her intelligence and leadership, which translates very well into modern day.
August 12, 2009
Turgid prose that goes on and on and on and on
February 1, 2017
Salah satu karya Agung dunia sastera.
Cuba lah....kau pasti akan terpukau....seperti aku juga.
Cuba lah....kau pasti akan terpukau....seperti aku juga.
March 13, 2024
it’s like if reading wasn’t fun. 10/10
Currently reading
August 9, 2021This mid-18th century masterpiece of Chinese literature - widely regarded as one of the four great classical Chinese novels - can be, as the preface points out, both very alien due to the distance of time and difference of milieu, as well as familiar due to its exploration of essential features of human heart and mind, which neither time nor space ever seems to alter.
The novel is essentially significant and of interest due to its minuscule detailing of life in mid-18th century China under the Qing dynasty in connected large and privileged Chinese households, their sociology, culture, preoccupations and gender, social, class and cultural relationships. It is understood to be largely autobiographical. The plot triggers from a sentient stone wants to enjoy the pleasures of Red Dust (the mundane world) and through the assistance of a Taoist priest and a Buddhist monk and is reborn as a precious jade. Reincarnation indeed plays an important role in this book. It appears in the mouth of a baby born in thee large interconnected households of Chia, namely the Rongguo House and the Ningguo House. Following some thirty main characters and four hundred minor ones the novel traces the ascendance, wealth, influence and fall of the House f Chia/Jia. Women characters are complex and numerous. The realistic narrative is intermingled with dreams and supernatural events evolving celestials. On the whole though the novel explores a way of life, the redeeming power of love and the transience of worldly existence.
It can be quite challenging when a sentence like the following appears: "It goes without saying that Chia Chiang, being intimate with Chia Jung, did not like to see Chin Jung ...". Especially, since there are so many characters, many inter-related, and often one doesn't find (in this abridged translation at least) sufficient context. There are many stylized names and it is amusing the find the author Tsao Hsueh-Chin, about whom precious little is known, having fun with them. For instance: Three young ladies who are sisters are called Pleasant Spring, Quest Spring and Compassion Spring; later in the book the author says: "Not wishing to disturb them, Black Jade joined the three Springs, who were also there for the morning presentation. The initial poetic formality and somberness of the names is thus dissipated by this light-hearted reference.
(More to come)
The novel is essentially significant and of interest due to its minuscule detailing of life in mid-18th century China under the Qing dynasty in connected large and privileged Chinese households, their sociology, culture, preoccupations and gender, social, class and cultural relationships. It is understood to be largely autobiographical. The plot triggers from a sentient stone wants to enjoy the pleasures of Red Dust (the mundane world) and through the assistance of a Taoist priest and a Buddhist monk and is reborn as a precious jade. Reincarnation indeed plays an important role in this book. It appears in the mouth of a baby born in thee large interconnected households of Chia, namely the Rongguo House and the Ningguo House. Following some thirty main characters and four hundred minor ones the novel traces the ascendance, wealth, influence and fall of the House f Chia/Jia. Women characters are complex and numerous. The realistic narrative is intermingled with dreams and supernatural events evolving celestials. On the whole though the novel explores a way of life, the redeeming power of love and the transience of worldly existence.
It can be quite challenging when a sentence like the following appears: "It goes without saying that Chia Chiang, being intimate with Chia Jung, did not like to see Chin Jung ...". Especially, since there are so many characters, many inter-related, and often one doesn't find (in this abridged translation at least) sufficient context. There are many stylized names and it is amusing the find the author Tsao Hsueh-Chin, about whom precious little is known, having fun with them. For instance: Three young ladies who are sisters are called Pleasant Spring, Quest Spring and Compassion Spring; later in the book the author says: "Not wishing to disturb them, Black Jade joined the three Springs, who were also there for the morning presentation. The initial poetic formality and somberness of the names is thus dissipated by this light-hearted reference.
(More to come)
January 27, 2025
This book is a mood. When I was in that mood, I loved it. Every mention of the imperial concubine delighted me. I didn't care that I could barely remember any of the characters. All I wanted was a random story featuring Chinese aristocracy and weird suicides.
When I wasn't in that mood, I found every page tedious and confusing, mainly because it's old, translated, and riddled with cultural significance that's completely lost on me, a casual Western reader in the 21st century.
I loved the final two sentences because they made me laugh, but they also demonstrated why this book is so weird and difficult to rate, a little like In Search of Lost Time. If you haven't read this book and never plan to, here they are:
Is it brilliant? Confusing? Funny? Two stars or five?
No idea. I gave it 3.5 stars, rounded down to three stars to acknowledge my boredom alongside my amusement. But I would totally understand any other rating.
When I wasn't in that mood, I found every page tedious and confusing, mainly because it's old, translated, and riddled with cultural significance that's completely lost on me, a casual Western reader in the 21st century.
I loved the final two sentences because they made me laugh, but they also demonstrated why this book is so weird and difficult to rate, a little like In Search of Lost Time. If you haven't read this book and never plan to, here they are:
Is it brilliant? Confusing? Funny? Two stars or five?
No idea. I gave it 3.5 stars, rounded down to three stars to acknowledge my boredom alongside my amusement. But I would totally understand any other rating.
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